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Technical Outerwear - Page 60

post #886 of 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceoceo View Post

I could probably walk outside in -13c with just an Icebreaker and a Heattech.

seriously? time to cop icebreaker and heattech
post #887 of 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonHedonist View Post

It does require a layering strategy, of course. It's not like a big puffer that you can rock over a tee shirt and be toasty. But I prefer it, because that makes it more versatile in different types of weather. On the coldest days id wear something like a thermal Henley and a chunky wool sweater or my stark (with my trapper hat). On 25 degree and above days it'd usually be an Oxford and merino v neck. Above freezing, anything light is fine. I think the fact that it is wind proof prevents excess warmth leakage and the new generation goretex membrane hits on just the right level of breathability to let out excess warmth. It does have to be pretty cold to wear it with my thickest wool sweater though, it gets pretty hot otherwise.

For those of us who already have a gore-tex shell is their much argument for also getting an insulated field jacket? I was toying with the idea of getting one this year but it seems like you could layer any slim insulator jacket under a shell and get exactly the same function + the ability to use it just as a rain jacket. Ended up deciding to save money and just suffered through the NY winter but next year am planning to drop 150 on a down liner to toss under my Nomad and just be done with it.
post #888 of 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by false View Post


For those of us who already have a gore-tex shell is their much argument for also getting an insulated field jacket? I was toying with the idea of getting one this year but it seems like you could layer any slim insulator jacket under a shell and get exactly the same function + the ability to use it just as a rain jacket. Ended up deciding to save money and just suffered through the NY winter but next year am planning to drop 150 on a down liner to toss under my Nomad and just be done with it.

 

Great question. So here's the deal. While I used to be more of a woodsy person, I live in a city now. Back in the burbs, I had a Gore shell/insulation puff layer combo from EMS that worked well for winter sports, backpacking and so on. But in the city, generally any time I really need Gore Tex, I also need some insulation. In a warm rain I just wear a long raincoat. For me, the Gore tex comes out when its cold, windy and possibly stormy. Otherwise I won't sacrifice style for a technical fabric. My previous gore tex shell was not very stylish, so it only came out when it was absolutely necessary. For me, moving to something as easy on the eyes as the Veilance jacket meant blending an almost timeless style with a crapload of winterization. I don't think I've ever seen a Gore Tex shell on its own that could do that.

 

So to answer your question I'd say yes, the argument to be made is: the insulated field jacket you could still feasibly wear in, say, the lobby at the Four Seasons and not look like you're lost. But a Gore shell and a down insulating layer will provide all the functional warmth you'd probably need...

post #889 of 969

A shell + puffy jacket (down or synthetic) ought to be warm enough for sedentary pursuits in the cold. Since most puffy jackets are bomber length, the length of a shell will help out a bit below the waist. Also, having a proper hood and a high collar makes a big difference to how much I can tolerate the wrath of true winter.

 

But for anything active, I think this combo is way too sweaty, even with the current generation of 3-layer fabrics. Even the lightest, most breathable puffy jacket fabrics are a bit of a sauna if you are working hard. Add a shell to that...

 

An insulated gore field jacket takes away 1 layer of pertex (or an equivalent thin liner fabric), so probably better, but there are a lot of factors that could make a big difference (e.g. insulated hood, fill weight, looseness of the jacket, etc.)

 

For anything sweatier than a dog walk, I like combining a baselayer, wool sweater and a softshell better than the gore + puffy. I don't have an ideal system, but I've got lots of baselayers and sweaters, and 3 softshells (1 gore, 1 schoeller dryskin, 1 laminated one I can't remember) to work with. For dirty work and bushwhacking, I'll replace the softshell with an old 60/40 or a canvas work jacket.    

 

That said, a nice med-light puffy is super versatile. I love wearing it with a topcoat, y'know, for the fashion. 

post #890 of 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by R300 View Post

read on sufu that isaora is shit quality regarding the price point. jus' sayin'

that print bomber up there is nice though..


"Shit quality" is probably harsh but I think it is fair to say the quality is pretty average and definitely overpriced at full retail. It will be interesting to see how they perform after the recent changes.

 

One of the drawbacks of 'technical fashion clothing' is the pricing. All the brands overcharge to a varying extent, it's a major part of their marketing strategy which also sets them apart from  outdoor specific stuff which in many cases will be of a better quality and cost makers a lot more in material, hardware, R&D, brand advertising, sponsorship etc.

 

Veilance is hugely overpriced but Arcteryx get away with it because the quality, design, styling is very good and the comparative rarity due to price point only makes it even more desirable for their target demographic.  For example a Veilance Field shell will set you back £850 in the UK and an Alpha SV £500. Both are made in the same Vancouver factory but the latter will most likely cost more to manufacture because of more expensive face fabric, more zips and a hell of a lot of R&D. Also there's no doubt that for function alone the SV is a much better shell but many people, including myself will knowingly pay way over the odds for the Veilance offering.


Edited by Grove - 4/7/14 at 4:36am
post #891 of 969

@False

 

The Insulated field jacket is an excellent 'fashion' shell for cold weather, if you like the look and willing to pay then I'd say go for it. It's a great jacket.

If you want the same functionality of an insulated pro-shell then it's worth considering some of Norrona's parkas. They are more realistically priced, the quality is on par with Veilance and they generally use primaloft which many believe is more hardwearing and keeps it's loft better than Arcteryx proprietary coreloft. The 29 Parka is also warmer than the Veilance with more insulation and a proper hood.

 

The other option you mention of a seperate insulator jacket is also a very good and versatile solution. There are loads of great jackets on the market both down and synthetic of varying warmth depending on your needs which will do the job under your shell and then either be used as an outer layer of compressed and suffed away in your bag when not needed.

 

If it's the latter and don't fancy the ubiquitous Patagonia, TNF, Arcteryx offerings then it's worth checking out some specialist British brands. Not suprisingly we do wet/cold weather protection better than most. ME, Montane, Rab, Finisterre, Berghaus make some of the best insulators on the market. The down stuff is also ethically sourced and in most cases also hydrophobic so it will stay warm and won't turn to porridge when wet.


Edited by Grove - 4/7/14 at 4:47am
post #892 of 969

A lot more R&D, and more expensive fabrics, are used for the Veilance line by Arc'teryx. It's just more optimized for specific functions/features as opposed to the mainline. The main advantages of an insulated shell compared to a separate hardshell+insulator lining is that the insulated shell fits better, movement is less restricted and it simply looks better. For example, last season's veilance insulated field jacket had variable amounts of insulation at various areas of the jacket designed to present a slim silhouette. A regular insulator lining would look very puffy in comparison.

post #893 of 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grove View Post

@False

The Insulated field jacket is an excellent 'fashion' shell for cold weather, if you like the look and willing to pay then I'd say go for it. It's a great jacket.
If you want the same functionality of an insulated pro-shell then it's worth considering some of Norrona's parkas. They are more realistically priced, the quality is on par with Veilance and they generally use primaloft which many believe is more hardwearing and keeps it's loft better than Arcteryx proprietary coreloft. The 29 Parka is also warmer than the Veilance with more insulation and a proper hood.


I have a /29 parka or I'm on my third, as they all break in the zipper, so I would say slightly below Veilance quality wise also they are made in China, where Veilance is made in Canada.

It's exceptionally warm though and weather proof, so I pretty much only zip it when its windy, rain or sub -10c, if they upgraded the zippers to a more heavy duty quality like CG etc. etc., it would be close to my perfect winter coat.
post #894 of 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suyi View Post
 

A lot more R&D, and more expensive fabrics, are used for the Veilance line by Arc'teryx. It's just more optimized for specific functions/features as opposed to the mainline.

Not true. Forget any marketing blurb you may have read, Veilance products true R&D costs are a tiny fraction of Arcteryx R&D. The mainline and LEAF stuff is designed, developed, bench and field tested for a full range of movement and protection in the most extreme climates and  terrain. It's the same company and design team so Veilance products obviously share many designs learned/developed from mainline and spreading R&D costs may be a useful way of managing taxes but Veilance it is chiefly an exercise in styling/marketing and in the case of the Field Jacket designed for limited movement and abrasion but to look good/stay warm and dry in an urban environment. .

Some of the fabrics may well be slightly more expensive but much has already been used on mainline stuff and the top end facings for mainline shells like the SV are not only more expensive by the metre than say a Field jacket but also cost many thousands more to develop.

post #895 of 969
It does look a lot nicer though.

But yes, the regular stuff is obviously field ready.
post #896 of 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Find Finn View Post


I have a /29 parka or I'm on my third, as they all break in the zipper, so I would say slightly below Veilance quality wise also they are made in China, where Veilance is made in Canada.

It's exceptionally warm though and weather proof, so I pretty much only zip it when its windy, rain or sub -10c, if they upgraded the zippers to a more heavy duty quality like CG etc. etc., it would be close to my perfect winter coat.


3 zips! That's mental. They are YKK's no? Which model?

 

I've never had any problem with my Goretex Norrona stuff and it's been properly abused . At the moment I have on rotation 2 Lofotens, a Trollvegan and a Rodal and the build quality is excellent on all. Easily comparable to my Veilance Field, Alpha SV and LEAF Parka

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA Guy View Post

It does look a lot nicer though.
 

For sure.

post #897 of 969
/29 parka the one you linked to, yeah they are ykk.
post #898 of 969
@Grove, you give too little credit to how much work goes into making those boxy, blaring goretex hooded shells into a fashionable Veilance field jacket. Styling is R&D
post #899 of 969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suyi View Post

@Grove, you give too little credit to how much work goes into making those boxy, blaring goretex hooded shells into a fashionable Veilance field jacket. Styling is R&D

Good one.

 

You're a funny guy.

post #900 of 969
I was initially a skeptic of the Veilance line, with MSRP much higher than most other manufacturers. After purchasing the Mionn insulated blazer last season, I've become a convert. It is truly amazing how something so light and thin can perform so well. It only has 40g of insulation yet kept me warm, dry and comfortable down to the 30s. It looks great too, since the bulk reduction doesn't make it seem like you just come from a ski trip. I think for urban techwear, it's hard to do much better than Veilance.
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