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Technical Outerwear - Page 11

post #151 of 1022
Heard mix reviews about the RO padded bomber...

Check this out, new from AR drool.gif
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Quote:
The outer shell with mesh lining is a Japanese high tech fabrication that is water repellent yet breathable. With a removable inner flight jacket, each piece can be worn alone or together depending on the weather conditions or your mood. Regular fit.
post #152 of 1022
AR? like what I'm seeing.





What brands/models do you guys look to for tech footwear? Want something sleek/black/tech fabric, only thing I can think of is Nike Frees or their Flywires.
post #153 of 1022
Aloha Rag, $2,100

Get on it Reedo!
post #154 of 1022
nonnative, diemme, raf are some options for footwear i guess.
i guess if you're actually running in them then its a no-go
post #155 of 1022
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmanxl View Post

nonnative, diemme, raf are some options for footwear i guess.
i guess if you're actually running in them then its a no-go

Not running lol. Post some pics of tech footwear guys!
post #156 of 1022
my raf vandals in nylon teacha.gif
i think raf is great for tech apparel. neon colours and all that shiny stuff!

tons of cool looking nike stuff for a more streetwear tech instead of luxe tech
post #157 of 1022
Not down with luxe tech, although the old raf velcro hi are nice. Nikes are the obvious choice, Domapproved too...
post #158 of 1022
Thread Starter 
so...Anyone want to have a discussion on the merits of the various technical fabrics?

The more I read, the less I can understand why any of the smaller labels use Gore-tex. The patent expired years ago. Are we all really slave to a label that much? The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the high quality garment manufacturing factories are somehow tied up with gore-tex. This was hinted at in the article Spatlese kindly linked earlier in the thread. Errolson Hugh certainly seems to think that the details of manufature in Arcteryx (pretty much exclusively Gore-tex) warrant accolade - things like the waterproof zippers, laser cutting, microseams, taping etc etc all contribute to the quality of the garment, even if the starting fabric isn't any better than that of its competitors.

Some thoughts based partly on my experience, and partly on reading up:
  • Goretex double layer outer shell is very light, very waterproof, if a little delicate. OTOH, it's kinda noisy
  • The gore-tex patent has expired and there are many branded and unbranded companies offering the same or better fabric (DWR coated type) for cheaper than gore tex.
  • From what I understand, Ventile is not as waterproof, but is more hard wearing and is much quieter than the coated (gore-tex type) fabrics. Ventile can become soaked in very, very heavy rain - while it will keep the water out, the fabric itself becomes saturated which can cause you to cool down rapidly.
  • Ventile is also a branded product. There are many other fabrics that work on the same principle; very fine fabric so tightly woven that water droplets can't pass through, but water vapour can. I believe the Ma.strum micro sateen comes under this category. Grenfell fabric is another example. The same general theme; these are usually harder wearing than the DWR type fabrics, don't require re-coating, and are quieter. On the other hand, they are usually not quite as waterproof.
  • The degree to which these things need to be waterproof is far, far overstated, unless you're living under a waterfall. Most of these fabrics will keep you dry in even the strongest of rain.
  • Another thing to keep in mind is that the design of the garment itself can often help with ventilation. This means that some, say waxed or rubber fabric garments can often expel humidity even without being technically breathable. A poncho, for example, has many entry and exit points for air.

Each product has its strengths and weaknesses. Most will keep you dry, but none of them will keep you warm. The general theme is that, beneath your waterproof breathable outer layer (whichever fabric you spring for), a nice thick insulating layer (a warm knit, for example) will keep you warm, and beneath that a wicking material (e.g. a merino baselayer) will wick away your sweat and keep it from cooling you down when you stop moving. Add in a smock between the insulating and waterproof layers, and it should keep you warm in most places above freezing, so long as you also have appropriate legwear.

I realise most of you don't care because these are fashion garments, but it's still nice to know how you should wear them in the zombie apocalypse.
Edited by hendrix - 7/30/12 at 3:59pm
post #159 of 1022
Another good point to bring up with discussing the waterproofness of a fabric is how well it also breathes. From my experience Gore pro shell is pretty much rubber over your body, unless they've changed something recently I can't say it was breathable at all. I only have experience with gore, but right now I've been looking for a new jacket for the rain/snow and I really can't seem to find any better designs than Arcteryx gear, it seems like they've pretty much perfected that niche market, I just wish they offered other fabrics as an option.
post #160 of 1022
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fungz0r View Post

Another good point to bring up with discussing the waterproofness of a fabric is how well it also breathes. From my experience Gore pro shell is pretty much rubber over your body, unless they've changed something recently I can't say it was breathable at all. I only have experience with gore, but right now I've been looking for a new jacket for the rain/snow and I really can't seem to find any better designs than Arcteryx gear, it seems like they've pretty much perfected that niche market, I just wish they offered other fabrics as an option.

I've found the goretex i've used to be quite breathable, but i've always used a layer in between so I wouldn't really be able to tell.

snippet from the article that Spatlese linked
Quote:
Gore supplies only one critical ingredient in the manufacturing of waterproof-breathable outdoor gear, but it guarantees every product that uses the Gore-Tex membrane. For that reason, it holds licensees to stringent and exacting agreements. Any company that puts the material in its wares is required to use Gore-certified factories and machinery, the latter of which is typically patented, fabricated, and leased to the factories by Gore itself. The fabric maker is also intimately involved in every step of the design and production processes, a policy that has grated on some brand managers and designers over the years. “You had to buy and use Gore-made seam tape that was exactly 24 millimeters wide,” John Cooley, who for much of the nineties served as Marmot’s VP of sales and marketing, recently recalled. “You had to have zipper flaps that were a certain width. They were highly controlling.”

I.e. if you want the technical production advances that brands like Veilance are so good at implementing, it's difficult to access them when you're not using Gore.
post #161 of 1022
^I don't think it's so much difficult than it is just much more costly. A local brand I've been using for years has moved its soft shell production from the US to China, and recently to Canada. The move to China imo gave a much better product without much of a price increase, comparable to that seen with most consumer goods that have gone up. The stuff now being made in Canada is using water proof riri zips and the latest Schoeller stuff, and looks like it's built like some of the Veilance stuff(makes me wonder if they're being made in the same places?). But now the prices are gonna reflect that change. For a small or new company without an established fan base, that's gonna be tough to sell.

I'm still interested in seeing what shoes people are wearing with their tech gear. I'm planning on picking up some Outlier OG Pants and maybe some Climbers soon and I'm trying figure out what shoes I'm gonna use. For baller stuff, I think the new premium Achilles look kinda nice, and snow's nylon Vandal recommendation sounds good, though I'd even settle for the regular Nike ones. I also like sneakers like my suede Hybrid Free boots or the Woven Mayflys, but I think they usually look weird when worn. I'm probably just gonna end up wearing black Authentic Lites most of the time nod[1].gif
post #162 of 1022
Just wear whatever shoes? Boots work too. Tech wear doesn't necessitate a full-out tech wardrobe.
post #163 of 1022

I think a big reason a lot of brands stick with Gore-Tex is that everyone assumes that all other waterproof fabrics are inferior.

post #164 of 1022
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingJulien View Post

I think a big reason a lot of brands stick with Gore-Tex is that everyone assumes that all other waterproof fabrics are inferior.

most brands stick with gore-tex because they fear them.  gore-tex is very powerful and bullies brand manufacturers into staying with them, and only them.  here is the article:

 

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/Insane-in-the-Membrane.html?page=all

post #165 of 1022
Quote:
Originally Posted by JunyaYamamoto View Post

most brands stick with gore-tex because they fear them.  gore-tex is very powerful and bullies brand manufacturers into staying with them, and only them.  here is the article:

 

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/Insane-in-the-Membrane.html?page=all

 

It is because Gore-tex  works, and very few other products come close. The only other one that I am aware of that is close would be eVent. I purchased my first Gore-Tex jacket ~1981 in Washington State, it was made by a small company down in Oregon called Columbia. Awesome parka and I wore it most of the year in the Olympic Mountains hunting and Puget Sound area fishing. Prior to that it was waxed cotton or solid rubber, both which made you sweat like hell with any physical exertion.  Yeah at one time Columbia made some decent stuff. And it was waterproof until Ma Columbia decided she could do better and started with their own OmniDry crap that is worthless shit. 
 
In that article linked above near the bottom the author says: Phillip Gibson, supervisory physical scientist at U.S. Army Natick Soldier Research, Development and Engineering Center.....  told me that, because Gore strikes a reliable balance of materials and construction, “soldiers seem to like Gore-Tex best.”
 
And that has been my experience both with ECWCS gear and my civilian hunting and fishing gear. What he is referring to is the ECWCS parka shell (extreme cold weather clothing system) that has gone through several generations. It started with Gore-Tex then they tried several other synthetic membranes and are now back with Gore-Tex. Because it works best. I have tried a lot of other synthetics over the years but keep coming back to Gore-Tex, and also function over form. Especially when I am in a situation where my life depends on it miles from the nearest person without any communications available. If all your doing is wearing it in the city don't think it makes much difference what you wear.
 
With Gore-Tex and most membranes breathability is a function of the face fabric and DWR in addition to the membrane. It can make or break the garment and some companies are better at it than others including the over all design and ventilation features.
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