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A Fine Pair of Shoes x Alfred Sargent MTO Thread - Page 58

post #856 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post

Well what a bummer. That new Radwell chukka boot looks tasty. If they are doing this to protect Leffot, fine, but why can't I order this model to be shipped to  Asia? Doesn't quite add up.

Leffot selling practices are very predatory. He went after an Edward Green customer who obough a shoes from him and from Edward Green directly. He forced EG hand into not selling to the customer directly. I would not be surprised if he has a hand in the latest AS decision.
post #857 of 995
Many companies do this. They simply want to protect their dealers. Leffot is in danger of being a victim of "showrooming" where people go to try on the shoes, determine their best fitting size and then purchase from somewhere else.

The problem is Leffot is not AS exclusive dealer, Leffot carries many different shoe brands hence its stock offerings will be slim.

Anyways I am not defending AS. I think this was shortsighted decision. AS exclusive line might be stuck in the middle of nowhere. At $750 price point you can choose to spend little more and go for G&G or little less and get Carmina shoes. In my opinion AS Exclusive line shoes should be in $500 range.
post #858 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saratorial_Splender View Post

Leffot selling practices are very predatory. He went after an Edward Green customer who obough a shoes from him and from Edward Green directly. He forced EG hand into not selling to the customer directly. I would not be surprised if he has a hand in the latest AS decision.

In that case, I backed Leffot. The shoe in question was a navy shell Westminster made up expressly for Leffot. Profits were being donated to charity I believe.

EG was right to say that that design was exclusive to Leffot. Perhaps you could make the case that after a certain amount of time, one could have gone directly to EG. At the very least, they should have quoted the same price point.

But let's not refight that debate here.

I just keep coming back to the simple fact that I want the widest choice and the ability to purchase any stock items I can find. That is what the global market is about - not the kind of Neo-Mercantilist crap like banning export to certain markets. I don't want to refight the War of Jenkin's Ear, but I will if I have to!

Comparative cost is actually secondary. I often support local vendors regardless of cost because I enjoy fostering those kind of relationships.
post #859 of 995
Exclusives aren't allowed but MTO exclusives are still a go?
post #860 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by NAMOR View Post

Exclusives aren't allowed but MTO exclusives are still a go?

That was my understanding. The reason is that MTO style are seldom sold elsewhere with the same configurations that SF members dream up! I have order 3 MTO from AFPoS and none of them is available at stores.
post #861 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrydog View Post

In that case, I backed Leffot. The shoe in question was a navy shell Westminster made up expressly for Leffot. Profits were being donated to charity I believe.

EG was right to say that that design was exclusive to Leffot. Perhaps you could make the case that after a certain amount of time, one could have gone directly to EG. At the very least, they should have quoted the same price point.

But let's not refight that debate here.

I just keep coming back to the simple fact that I want the widest choice and the ability to purchase any stock items I can find. That is what the global market is about - not the kind of Neo-Mercantilist crap like banning export to certain markets. I don't want to refight the War of Jenkin's Ear, but I will if I have to!

Comparative cost is actually secondary. I often support local vendors regardless of cost because I enjoy fostering those kind of relationships.

I agree, but anyway you look at it, this is a restriction of trade. My last words.
post #862 of 995
In case special make up MTO is allowed is anybody out there interested in boots. I am thinking about

Cambridge boots or Miller boots
Dark Brown Hatch Grain
Ridgeway soles

If anybody is interested in this please let me know.
post #863 of 995

When you think about it, the more this forum pays homage to certain brands, the more they take it as a sign of their unrestricted superiority. So they change their policies willy nilly knowing that after some initial low level grumbling, they will get their way.

 

The huge Carmina MTO price increase. This new AS move. What next...Vass charging as much as Edward Green. That day isnt too far off I reckon.

post #864 of 995
This is a very shortsighted move on the part of AS which they will regret. Their shoes are not readily available in the US, for example, outside of online sales unless you happen to live near NYC. And yet there are customers across the country that know the AS exclusive brand and would buy their products. Leffot is not well stocked and he is not always easy to deal with. Rider doesn't really carry non-boot offerings.

Bottom line: fewer sales, period. And the higher price charged in the US will further reduce sales, not make up the difference of less volume.
post #865 of 995

LOL @ Leffot/AS drama.

 

BTW, I think On the Fly/Wingtip in SF carries AS, so Leffot isn't the only crook in town.

post #866 of 995

Seems to me that Leffot are getting some harsh press here.  I should point out at this stage that I've never bought either from them or from AFPOS, and my only AS shoes came from Yoox (who are assholes).

 

First of all, the apparent price difference looks worse than it is: if you're in the US, then you have to add shipping and possibly import duties to the price.  Leffot have already paid the shipping and the duties.  They also have to add 10% NY sales tax.  Once those things are taken into account, the difference might be pretty small.  Second, they might not get the same price wholesale from AS - nobody will ever know.  AFPOS have no competing shoes at the same price point and might get a better rate.  Leffot, by offering several brands in that range, might lose out on some wholesale discounts.  That would not be unusual.  

 

But third, and this is a biggie too, Leffot is a shop.  With rent, heating and cleaning bills, property taxes, and someone who has to be there all the time to take an interest in your feet.  The overheads are massive compared to an internet-only business that takes a PC in the living room, and flexible working hours.  No disrespect is intended to AFPOS - they clearly offer a fine product and a very helpful service.  I buy from other online retailers all the time, and service counts.  But there is a clear, qualitative difference in the retail service if you can physically try on a range of shoes.  All in all, then, accusing Leffot of charging unfair prices is probably a bit harsh.

 

Harsher still is to call them "predatory" for not allowing their customers to circumvent them and go direct to a wholesaler - or an agent from another market.  When you take an agency (and I have some myself in another business), you normally have three specific points that it all comes down to: 1. How long - normally a fixed term with some option to renew at intervals if everyone's happy.  2. Where - a fixed geographical or customer base.  It's unusual to take a distribution agreement that covers the whole world, even in a less formal wholesale arrangement.  And 3. What - the specific products or services you will sell, that might not include the principal's entire range.  

 

As a fellow small businessman, it sounds to me like Leffot and AS are getting a beating for not very much here.  Somebody put his balls and probably his house on the line, and invested his money and his time in opening an expensive shop, employing people, signing up for a bunch of hideous bills and probably loans, and persuading a collection of find shoemakers to supply through him.  He did it.  For real, at his own risk, in order to make something beautiful and bring these products to the US for you to hold in your hands.  Forgive the man for wanting to get paid, and not wanting someone else to take a free ride on his efforts and undercut him because they took a less customer-focused and therefore cheaper business model.  Likewise, AS should be commended for not screwing over a man who has invested in physically bringing their products to a new market. 

 

There is a serious point about where to buy outside the EU or US.  Clearly, AS need to spell out where their authorised re-sellers are for any given market - their fancy website gives no details on this important point, which is odd.  But I'm sure either AFPOS or Leffot would be happy to find out and tell SF-ers-of-Asia like myself, and will do so in due course.  It sounds to me like they've worked this first issue out in a gentlemanly manner, and I'm sure either or both of them will be able to clarify this shortly.

post #867 of 995

For a guy who's never bought shoes from Leffot, you seem to have a helluva lot to say in their favour. 

 

I'll tell you why I wouyld rather buy AS from AFPOS rather than Leffot. 

 

AFPOS takes the VAT off your order, Leffot charges really high prices. (I dont care what their overheads are I care about my own).

 

AFPOS will declare a value that will get your goods to you without hideous duties, Leffot will proudly state full price on the parcel and you'll get hit with duties.

 

AFPOS will ship you what they promised, Leffot, well.....they'll give you a refund if you make a big enough stink.

 

At then end of the day I don't really care about how much money a retailer has invested in rent, utilities etc. That's not my problem. I only want the best value for my money.

 

Let the most efficient business model win.


Edited by Fiddler - 1/17/13 at 3:35am
post #868 of 995
The result of this no shipping outside the EU policy will be that AS will lose sales in all countries where they have zero presence such as India. AFAIK, no store here carries AS (or any other English shoes for that matter) and now online vendors will not ship to India.

Definitely a loss to Indians like me but we will move to other brands ... in the end it will be AS's loss
post #869 of 995
I also think Leffot is getting a raw deal on this thread. I have been to the shop and the owner is very nice and open. He charges more than AFPOS does. That's the only fact I can confirm among the accusations. My issue when I was looking there was he only did MTO on the Handgrade line. That meant $1200+ for calf. I'm satisfied with the Exclusive line. Yes, I can buy what's in the shop for $700, and I think it's not an unreasonable price, but what if I want something unique. Then it's almost twice the price. And, when I was there I don't think he stocked anything made to Exclusive standards, only Handgrade.

Leffot is a very impressive shop. EG, G&G, St. Crispin, Corthay, Alden. My concern when I was there was that my price point is $400-700 for shoes. That left me with only Alden. Every other brand carried that I looked at were $1100+. By now stocking more AS Exclusives he's filling that price point gap between Alden and the European makers. I applaud him for adding those shoes. At the time I was there, even the AS Moore, which is normally part of the Exclusive line was stocked as a Handgrade quality. It's the opposite of the MTO that AFPOS has been doing for us, making the Miller and Blake from the Handgrade line to Exclusive standards. I think Leffot now stocking true Exclusives is a step in the right direction.

I would love to see AS expand its US distribution. Perhaps Sky Valet, my local purveyor, is an option. I'd definitely buy there over anywhere else b/c I can see all of the models and try them on. I've bought my C&J and Alden there because I support local shops. But for custom shoes that can't be purchased elsewhere (including some shoes that just aren't stocked locally) I'm also all for internet sales including international.

My hope is that AS expands its US distribution - which in turn will lower prices here; and AFPOS can continue to sell us through its MTO programme the Exclusive level shoes that we design ourselves. That would be the best of both worlds.
post #870 of 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddler View Post


At then end of the day I don't really care about how much money a retailer has invested in rent, utilities etc. That's not my problem. I only want the best value for my money.

Let the most efficient business model win.

:smalltimer:
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