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Manual Transmissions... - Page 6

post #76 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

But I can totally understand why Americans would buy automatics... our gas is cheaper. We practically live in our cars. Its just easier to push the pedal down and drive [an automatic]. I will bet money that if Europe had sub $4.00 gas/gallon prices more and more europeans would switch over to the dark side with mid priced cars with automatic transmissions.

Would be true, sadly gas is close to 9$/gallon.
post #77 of 116
Many Asians (at least Japan and Korea) choose autos actually, because the licensing here has a separate class for MTs and it's an extra step in an already very grueling licensing process - 3 months of driving school and written/road tests before you get the AT license here. I think numbers of people carrying the MT license is dwindling because MT cars are few and far between, it's like America where many new drivers don't even know how to drive a stick.

Combine that with horrific stop and go driving and no place where you would get to row through any significant number of gears, plus some 'interesting' parking maneuvers, and an auto seems like the better choice. It's very hard to find manual transmission cars here unless it's one of those cars that just never came with anything but an auto, like the E39 M5. Ferraris are all F1, BMW M cars are mostly SMG/DCT, most Porsches are Tip (going back to the gen 1 Tip in 964's - lots of 964 and 993 autos here)
post #78 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post


europeans/asians/south americans/canadians chose manuals due to the pragmatic reasons that manual transmissions can be advantageous:
- better fuel economy

this is no longer true in many new cars... mine , for example, DSG (dual clutch automated manual gearbox) has slight edge in rated mileage city AND hway
post #79 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trompe le Monde View Post

this is no longer true in many new cars... mine , for example, DSG (dual clutch automated manual gearbox) has slight edge in rated mileage city AND hway

People who want better fuel economy usually are not looking to spend the extra dough on cars that even have a DCT option, and if it is an option, usually a pricey one over a manual.
post #80 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteslashasian View Post

People who want better fuel economy usually are not looking to spend the extra dough on cars that even have a DCT option, and if it is an option, usually a pricey one over a manual.
most people prefer "automatic" anyway, so its never a decision
"mileage" minded decisions are never rational. e.g., upgrading to a hybrid car to save gas when total ownership cost is the same or higher over its lifetime
post #81 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trompe le Monde View Post

this is no longer true in many new cars... mine , for example, DSG (dual clutch automated manual gearbox) has slight edge in rated mileage city AND hway

^this is not really true in the real world. manual transmissions in the hands of a savvy driver will get higher milage compared to a DCT or automatic transmission. DCT will always have better performance speed wise, but aren't programmed to hypermiling.

if you look at the hypermilers who go for world records they all use manual transmission diesel engined cars.

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/10/hypermiling-taylors-set-fuel-economy-record-in-volkswagen-passat-tdi/

Hypermiling Taylors Set Fuel-Economy Record in Volkswagen Passat TDI

"They departed May 3 and passed through nine states, averaging 84.1 miles per gallon during the excursion, and finished on May 5. By Wednesday the Taylors were on a plane, en route to their home in Australia."
post #82 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

^this is not really true in the real world. manual transmissions in the hands of a savvy driver will get higher milage compared to a DCT or automatic transmission. DCT will always have better performance speed wise, but aren't programmed to hypermiling.
if you look at the hypermilers who go for world records they all use manual transmission diesel engined cars.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/10/hypermiling-taylors-set-fuel-economy-record-in-volkswagen-passat-tdi/
Hypermiling Taylors Set Fuel-Economy Record in Volkswagen Passat TDI

"They departed May 3 and passed through nine states, averaging 84.1 miles per gallon during the excursion, and finished on May 5. By Wednesday the Taylors were on a plane, en route to their home in Australia."

hypermiling isnt the really the real world
post #83 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trompe le Monde View Post

hypermiling isnt the really the real world

come on man don't be like that. what I meant is that hypermiling techniques have been applied by savvy manual users for ages. hypermiling is the extreme example but manual drivers still do it to a degree.

. when you go to car forums (such as the TDi forums) even with EPA estimates putting the dct versions with equal/higher mpg estimates. real world results are manual transmission users get higher mpg compared to the automatic versions.
post #84 of 116

I've always been known to cut the engine and coast to the red light and pop the clutch to get the car started... I am to cheap to buy a Hybrid. I don't have the balls to draft behind a big rig with the engine off...

post #85 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtS90 View Post

I've always been known to cut the engine and coast to the red light and pop the clutch to get the car started... I am to cheap to buy a Hybrid. I don't have the balls to draft behind a big rig with the engine off...

^haha! well thats an extreme example, or actually not that extreme - for old school manual drivers who live in super mountainous regions. truckers have been doing that for ages.

simple things like engine braking to stop light, downshifting before going up hill to gain momentum and even turning off the engine during heavy traffic/very long stop lights.. these are things that manual drivers learn to do instinctively due to the nature of the shifting.

you can theoretically do that with a DCT, but thats just not programmed into the automatic shifting patterns. so in the end the DCT will be faster and aid in better performance speed wise, but that super efficient shifting will have a marginal impact on fuel economy.

maybe the engineers have a button to press to engage super efficient (hypermiling type of shifting patterns) shifting programs, but I only see more sporty shift program options instead.
post #86 of 116
Really? Do people besides hypermilers switch off their engines at lights? Anyway, it's all moot as many hypermiling techniques are now being integrated into cars. Start-stop engines are coming online now, but except for the hybrids, they kind of sound like the driver stalled the car.
post #87 of 116

I am kind of anal about not randomly starting my car ( I don't leave it running at grocery stores and whatnot), but I try to not start it unnecessarily.


Do the new stop/start cars have preoilers?

post #88 of 116

I only did the above in eco boxes... Such as Ford Escorts, Honda Civics, etc. Just a shit engine with little stress to get the peace crap moving. I would not do this with a sports car, like an M3... I also never done this with a carbed engine.

post #89 of 116

fuel efficiency with a manual is solely up to driver skill

with an auto software does the work

parasitic losses in the new auto's are much less, even less than the manual in some applications

a few advantages of the manual, typically more durable and they can be manipulated a bit more, say rocking out of snow, or slipping the clutch on bad surfaces for traction

although the traction controls eat away at much of those advantages

 

the best in my opinion, dual clutch automated 'manuals'

post #90 of 116
More shifting pr0n compiled from F&F:

I wish they'd included some heel-toe.
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