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post #61 of 116
The idea of a really high powered manual transmission car kind of intimidates me, like a gated Ferrari with 500bhp or a Murcielago or something, doesn't really interest me because you're already in jail after two gears in these modern high-powered cars. lol8[1].gif I love banging on a manual car but I think if I ever buy one again, it'll be something kinda slow that you just wring the hell out of. I really enjoyed my old E30 318iS for this purpose, never got into much trouble with it and the transmission and clutch engagement was nice feeling. You could really work through the 4 gears all day long in that thing and not have to worry about getting too hot to trot. You miss the power when downshifting and expecting a bit of acceleration in that car, but otherwise it's fine. Would really like an E30 320iS or something similar to remind me of those days.
post #62 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

I love banging on a manual car but I think if I ever buy one again, it'll be something kinda slow that you just wring the hell out of.

Like I said in a earlier discussion some of the most fun you can have while driving, is in a small city car, where you rev the nuts of it.
post #63 of 116
I still think the perfect city car is a Triumph GT6 or MGB GT with A/C. Hatch back for utility purpose. Beautiful engine and transmission combo. Not so much power that you can't use all the gears and push it around town, but yet enough power to cruise on US Highways.

Alfa Romeo GTV6 would be another charmer if you can afford it.
post #64 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtS90 View Post

I still think the perfect city car is a Triumph GT6 or MGB GT with A/C. Hatch back for utility purpose. Beautiful engine and transmission combo. Not so much power that you can't use all the gears and push it around town, but yet enough power to cruise on US Highways.
Alfa Romeo GTV6 would be another charmer if you can afford it.

or a nice BMW 2002

post #65 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur PE View Post

or a nice BMW 2002

Always liked the look of the 2002

237


This classic Saab 99 is also a great looking car, always liked them, owned and crashed a 900 turbo:

265
post #66 of 116
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

The idea of a really high powered manual transmission car kind of intimidates me, like a gated Ferrari with 500bhp or a Murcielago or something, doesn't really interest me because you're already in jail after two gears in these modern high-powered cars. lol8[1].gif I love banging on a manual car but I think if I ever buy one again, it'll be something kinda slow that you just wring the hell out of. I really enjoyed my old E30 318iS for this purpose, never got into much trouble with it and the transmission and clutch engagement was nice feeling. You could really work through the 4 gears all day long in that thing and not have to worry about getting too hot to trot. You miss the power when downshifting and expecting a bit of acceleration in that car, but otherwise it's fine. Would really like an E30 320iS or something similar to remind me of those days.

When I worked at a car dealership many years ago I was transporting a Corvette Z1 from one dealership to another and almost wrapped it around a telephone pole because I wasn't used to the power. Flooring a Corvette is much different than flooring a subaru (or, whatever).
post #67 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tck13 View Post

When I worked at a car dealership many years ago I was transporting a Corvette Z1 from one dealership to another and almost wrapped it around a telephone pole because I wasn't used to the power. Flooring a Corvette is much different than flooring a subaru (or, whatever).

In part because you hear more squeaks and rattles than you ever thought possible.
post #68 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by why View Post

In America maybe. In Europe absolutely not. For that reason I think it will always be possible to get manual transmissions on at least Euro imports.
Sport-shifts on cars like Subarus are really nice, though I've always wondered if they can give the same power boost as a manual transmission.

I actually think it's the other way around. European car enthusiasts have been quick to adopt automated transmission technologies. For the most part, so have Americans. But the taste for a stick shift, despite the performance disadvantage, has shown to be most prevalent in the US. The only reason BMW feels compelled to offer manual transmissions in any of their M cars is because of American demand.
post #69 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I actually think it's the other way around. European car enthusiasts have been quick to adopt automated transmission technologies. For the most part, so have Americans. But the taste for a stick shift, despite the performance disadvantage, has shown to be most prevalent in the US. The only reason BMW feels compelled to offer manual transmissions in any of their M cars is because of American demand.

And yet I would like to direct your attention to the following screenshot,

it is a europe wide search of second hand vehicles with no selections.

vqlf9s.png

Please take a look at the lower left, where it says transmission, and the number of cars available with either manual/automatic.

Its going to take a long time before the preferred shifting method for cars in europe becomes automatic, although the prius/hybrid crazy did a lot for sales in that department...

Currently its about 25% automatic..
post #70 of 116
I've always been a manual man.

Even ordered my V8 5 series in a manual.
Salesman looked at my like I was a drunk.
post #71 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by nootje View Post

And yet I would like to direct your attention to the following screenshot,
it is a europe wide search of second hand vehicles with no selections.
vqlf9s.png
Please take a look at the lower left, where it says transmission, and the number of cars available with either manual/automatic.
Its going to take a long time before the preferred shifting method for cars in europe becomes automatic, although the prius/hybrid crazy did a lot for sales in that department...
Currently its about 25% automatic..

Those are used cars, which tells us nothing about the future of the market. New performance-oriented cars in Europe all tend to use dual clutch or automated manual transmissions, with three pedal stick shifts becoming increasingly rare. So, it stands to reason that people in Europe who buy budget compacts with manual transmissions do it because it is cost effective, not because they love driving.
post #72 of 116
Gotta Disagree with you Foo-Man.

The automatic is still a minority choice unless you're strong-armed into an Auto by manufacturers in Europe. While I agree that retrospective assessment doesn't constitute future behaviour, you'd still struggle to find a car made in the last 2 years for which more than 25% were Auto when the manual versions was equal in price and availability.
post #73 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhood View Post

Gotta Disagree with you Foo-Man.
The automatic is still a minority choice unless you're strong-armed into an Auto by manufacturers in Europe. While I agree that retrospective assessment doesn't constitute future behaviour, you'd still struggle to find a car made in the last 2 years for which more than 25% were Auto when the manual versions was equal in price and availability.

strong armed by the science of more efficient shifting from a DCT = better performance.

europeans/asians/south americans/canadians chose manuals due to the pragmatic reasons that manual transmissions can be advantageous:

- better fuel economy
- less maintenance
- lower cost at purchase
- smaller engines (like 1.3L diesels) that make manual transmissions a necessity

conversely there are just as practical reasons to choose a DCT in a supercar = better performance.

I think "strong armed" is too harsh a description - rather Porsche/Ferrari and Nissan (GTR) engineers are pragmatic enough to know that DCT transmissions on race cars/super cars = better performance. Ultimately end user consumers will understand so and follow suit - better performance will always be the best selling point.

when was the last time F1 cars had a truly manual transmission?
post #74 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by LawrenceMD View Post

I think "strong armed" is too harsh a description

You're right of course, I was simply referring to the M5 type scenario where manufacturers push the Auto for completely justified reasons, even though it is a popular and high-selling car.

When you look at things like a Passat, A4, E Class, Ford you simply wont find automatics at anything like the rate of manuals.

I do wonder why it is; there can't be any more city driving in Europe than the US (I maintain that at under 15mph a manual with clutch affords more control). And on a motorway once you're in 6th gear it doesn't matter what put you there - a leaver or a robot.
post #75 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhood View Post

When you look at things like a Passat, A4, E Class, Ford you simply wont find automatics at anything like the rate of manuals.
I do wonder why it is; there can't be any more city driving in Europe than the US (I maintain that at under 15mph a manual with clutch affords more control). And on a motorway once you're in 6th gear it doesn't matter what put you there - a leaver or a robot.

Hey I'm the guy who bought a Jetta Sportwagen TDi (i think its called a golf wagen in europe) in 6speed manual to drive around NYC with.

The only reason I bought that car (a manual transmission diesel station wagon) is because in 2010 I spent a month in Europe (Prague/France/Croatia) and figured out why the Europeans drive smaller manual transmission [often diesel engined] cars: they are are just so much more practical.

with my car I saved almost $3,000 on the sticker price, get 42-48mpg highway, and 30+mpg with 99% NYC driving.

Other benefits: more traction/control with a manual in snowy/wet/ice conditions, you actually pay attention to the road when driving and manually shifting (especially city driving), the general zen like feeling of manually shifting the gears properly.

But I can totally understand why Americans would buy automatics... our gas is cheaper. We practically live in our cars. Its just easier to push the pedal down and drive [an automatic]. I will bet money that if Europe had sub $4.00 gas/gallon prices more and more europeans would switch over to the dark side with mid priced cars with automatic transmissions.
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