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The Zam Barrett Thread - Page 9

post #121 of 401
People who get super butthurt about designers "copying" someone, or not being "inventive" enough make me lol. Oh noes, Zam's jacket looks like a Devoa jacket. His pants have twists like some other designers. His leather jackets use leather. Who fucking cares?

Everyone takes inspiration from everyone. What's wrong with that? Why do designers have to break new ground constantly? How many new ways of making and sewing pants do we really need?
post #122 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzairh View Post

I anticipated you would show up... Welcome to the dialog!

Firstly, I want you to know that there are many folks, including ones from SZ, who say the same when I have met them in person. They don't say so online and we all know why.

Here is an example: Siamese belt. And I mean copy, not replica. Sure, double buckle belts have been done by many others, even before CCP, but the CCP influence is clearly visible. It won't be a surprise if you owned/used a CCP double buckle belt before.

Frankly, I am not looking to get in an item by item discussion with you, so I will leave it at that.

I have seen your stuff in person and I stand by my original statements. Next time I am in Brooklyn, I am open to coming to your workshop and discussing in a civil way if you are inclined to. I would love to have my opinion changed!

The reality is that everything is a copy of something in one way or another, CCP copied his style from who knows what because he obviously needed to get inspiration from somewhere.
post #123 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Moo View Post

People who get super butthurt about designers "copying" someone, or not being "inventive" enough make me lol. Oh noes, Zam's jacket looks like a Devoa jacket. His pants have twists like some other designers. His leather jackets use leather. Who fucking cares?

Everyone takes inspiration from everyone. What's wrong with that? Why do designers have to break new ground constantly? How many new ways of making and sewing pants do we really need?

They're just butthurt like everyone else that isn't doing it/making money from it. I'm starting to print shirts with my own designs, why? Because it makes MONEY! Tees are something that everyone can afford and theres a good margin of profit so hell yeah I'm copying somebody elses shit! foo.gif
post #124 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzlybear View Post

The reality is that everything is a copy of something in one way or another, CCP copied his style from who knows what because he obviously needed to get inspiration from somewhere.

cowboy boots devil.gif
post #125 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzairh View Post

I anticipated you would show up... Welcome to the dialog!

Firstly, I want you to know that there are many folks, including ones from SZ, who say the same when I have met them in person. They don't say so online and we all know why.

Here is an example: Siamese belt. And I mean copy, not replica. Sure, double buckle belts have been done by many others, even before CCP, but the CCP influence is clearly visible. It won't be a surprise if you owned/used a CCP double buckle belt before.

Frankly, I am not looking to get in an item by item discussion with you, so I will leave it at that.

I have seen your stuff in person and I stand by my original statements. Next time I am in Brooklyn, I am open to coming to your workshop and discussing in a civil way if you are inclined to. I would love to have my opinion changed!
Thank you for welcoming me,
However there is no way you could have known I would reply to any of this.
I have known about this thread, and many others regarding my work. I have been a member of this forum for a long time, However I never used it before and only re-registered yesterday because I could not find the information for my old account and felt to just make a single post. Every designer has people who like their work and others who dont, so there is nothing special in the fact that there are varying opinions relating to what i do.
I am not asking you to back down from your original arguments, but simply to provide a credible example........and by this measure you have failed. To associate my Siamese Belt to a CCP double buckle belt is wrong on so many levels. We have a Siamese Bag, we have done a Siamese tank. Actually the whole Siamese concept in my work is older than my entire menswear offerings and goes back to my  FW 2006 "Resident Alien" Women's collection. Maybe you didn't even know that from 2001 -2007 I had a women's collection in New York and that this collection predates my  SZ and my membership there. The Siamese Belt is nothing more than creating a belt that is a fusion of our classic slim belt in a manner that expresses the concept of two individual things/ persons that are joined together

Here is a Siamese piece from that women's collection.
Originally Posted by uzairh View Post

There is nothing original with what he does. Taking designs/cuts that got a lot of rep on SZ and re-hashing is all I have seen (Overlock, Siamese belt, etc).

The same ethos are eschewed with prejudice on SZ, but when ZB does it, 'great work' and applause follows?!? Is it because his buddy Rabkin runs the place?

Sure, great work will trickle down onto others (like overlock stitching) and that just validates my original point. Just re-hashed and derivative.

Look at his 1-B blazer and the one from Devoa. Looks like a rip off to me.


I am intrigued by your comment about Devoa and CCP. Care to show and example of Daisuke ripping-off Carol?
 
Your second statement is not as strong as your first, but I told hold it against you. People are usually like that when they are required to present supporting evidence to claims they make but cant legitimately defend.........As the old saying goes:" A drowning man catches after even straws"
All I am saying is just be careful how you go about making irresponsible accusations regarding things that can't be validated when required to do so. As designers we are all hard working people doing the best we can, and for the record while I do make a living from this, I am not in it for the money, as the truth of the matter is there isn't much to make, whether you believe it or not.
  Professionally there are several things that are important to me in my work and being known as the most "original" designer isn't at the top of them. It would be foolish of Any designer who is striving for such a goal anyways..
1. Am I producing work that I can be proud of and free to claim as legitimately my own?
My mind is free to truthfully answer a big YES to this regardless of what your opinion may be.

2. is the clothing well made and the customer receiving a fair value for the item they are paying?
Again my answer to this is Yes.

3. Am I improving as a designer and is my company developing the way i would like to see it?
It's been rocky at times but from a long term perspective again the answer is yes.
Outside of these things little else matters, simply because these are the only things I really have any control over.

It would be a pleasure of mine, to welcome you, like many others to Zfactorie, I dont mind it at all. We host many people here all the time from all over the world and have even set up our showroom so that it is most hospitable to our visitors when they come
post #126 of 401

Zam, you have the civility of a saint.

 

Equating Zam's use of overlock stitching to ripping off CCP would be like saying (to StyleForum-ize it) "Petar Petrov uses straight stitching, he's ripping off Ervell!"

It's a construction technique that just happens to be favored in that particular niche.

 

Simply because that aesthetic has some distinct design elements doesn't mean that they can be ascribed to solely the "original" designers and everyone else is just simulacra. We don't get all in a tizzy when innumerable companies make pleated pants or peak lapel blazers and write all but one off as copies.

 

The weightless stuff sounds interesting, though I'm curious as to why you didn't produce pants.

post #127 of 401
Yes, I knew you would post here, and I also knew you would say my example is weak. Fact is nothing either of us says will convince each other otherwise.

Remember what I mentioned before; others echo me in person, but not online.

Looking forward to seeing you at your workshop in the near future. Till then.....
post #128 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzairh View Post


Yes, I knew you would post here, and I also knew you would say my example is weak. Fact is nothing either of us says will convince each other otherwise.

sure you did
post #129 of 401
It's a bit hard to suddenly provide examples since I obviously don't keep an extensive archive of your work + other similar works, but I've managed to assemble a few. Keep in mind that I never stated that any of your works are direct knock-offs, just that key concepts of your brand seemed heavily inspired from others and that I couldn't feel the uniqueness of Zam Barrett, I guess. I don't think you necessarily need to feel bad about this or care about my opinion ... just, it is what it is.

(Zam first, other brand second)













(Plus, the aforementioned Devoa coat, and other things which are very common amongst many brands in your niche like heavily curved tapered pants)

However, I'll confess that while looking for examples to fit my thesis, I also found a lot of interesting pieces by you which I couldn't think of any analog to, and that I would be interested in seeing/trying. I guess it's just that for me, the "vision" your brand represents never stood out to me, and I overwhelmingly remembered the negative things I had felt as people are often wont to do. So if your goal here was to put naysayers in their place, well, mission accomplished I guess – I do feel kind of foolish.

However, when you say, and I quote: "I borrow nothing from no one."

That is a heavy burden to put onto yourself, and one that I don't think is necessary.
post #130 of 401
Custom Zam pants smile.gif

2wd3ed4.jpg
post #131 of 401
^those pants fit perfectly.

Brad, the double buckle is not ccp's. do a google search of double buckle belt and you'll be disappointed.
The pants' feature totally different seaming; the only similarity is the overlock stitching.
the patchwork pants? I mean come on man. How many people have done patch work pieces? It's been around as long as clothing itself.

CCP boots and derbies feature a very similar last to high end english footwear. He only diverges in the leather treatment and distressing.
His sneakers draw so heavily on converse they'd be NOTHING without the converse design. And his jeans are...levis in different fabric, cut, and over lock stitching.
post #132 of 401
Did you read any of the text in my post or just glance through the images?

Also, I did a GIS search for "double buckle belt" and there is nothing resembling either of the two belts.

I'm not even a CCP fan or even talking about CCP, so I am not sure why you're bringing that up.
post #133 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by brad-t View Post

It's a bit hard to suddenly provide examples since I obviously don't keep an extensive archive of your work + other similar works, but I've managed to assemble a few. Keep in mind that I never stated that any of your works are direct knock-offs, just that key concepts of your brand seemed heavily inspired from others and that I couldn't feel the uniqueness of Zam Barrett, I guess. I don't think you necessarily need to feel bad about this or care about my opinion ... just, it is what it is.

[

1. Not like your opinion matters in the real world in the first place

and

2. The exact reason why this shouldnt even be discussed.

Like it has been repeated even if it was a direct "copy" of something Zam is the one sourcing, directing, and making the pieces (aka putting in the work) and everyone else is just bitching, so you either like it and shut up or don't say anything at all.
post #134 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzlybear View Post

Like it has been repeated even if it was a direct "copy" of something Zam is the one sourcing, directing, and making the pieces (aka putting in the work) and everyone else is just bitching, so you either like it and shut up or don't say anything at all.

Does this mean that nobody can say mean things about Hedi Slimane in the SLP thread anymore? It's not like this is an affiliate thread.

Even if I was to agree that my posts were out of line, your comment makes no sense. I was asked by Zam to give some examples so I did and left my thoughts. That's enough.
Edited by brad-t - 5/10/13 at 9:11pm
post #135 of 401
Quote:
Originally Posted by brad-t View Post

Does this mean that nobody can say mean things about Hedi Slimane in the SLP thread anymore? It's not like this is an affiliate thread.

Even if I was to agree that my posts were out of line, your comment makes no sense. I was asked by Zam to give some examples so I did and left my thoughts. That's enough.

I was more so directing my comment to Uzairh but you also act as if you are the know it all in fashion and its a little annoying dude, a majority of the time you act like a douchebag/jet type.
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