or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Sole Welting
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sole Welting - Page 59

post #871 of 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

MWS - people can take what they wish from the example given.

I do not choose to debate with you the degree to which the example does or does not reflect the conduct of any thread participant as a) I do not believe that such a discussion can take place on a level playing field and b) partly as a consequence, I'm not sure that anything of value would come of such a discussion, and c) if you see one party here as a blameless victimized bashee rather than a serial basher then there is likely no room for meaningful discussion in any event.

I respct your opinion - and your right to express it - even if I disagree with it.

I fully respect that, and agree that it becomes a fruitless discussion at some point. Regarding point C), I don't consider anyone truly blameless, as I alluded to with my point about heated emotion. I just consider that to be a two way street. There have been apologies in the past to rectify that though.
post #872 of 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post



I fully respect that, and agree that it becomes a fruitless discussion at some point. Regarding point C), I don't consider anyone truly blameless, as I alluded to with my point about heated emotion. I just consider that to be a two way street. There have been apologies in the past to rectify that though.

 



Cheers.
post #873 of 1701

Quite a digression from welting, but my two cents.

 

Great example of chefs vs cooks vs critics. Who is a "good" chef? I submit it is someone who makes food you like. A chef who makes food that many people like, but not you, would be a good chef to her/his fans, but not to you. A matter of taste. One could argue that a good food critic would help you determine whether a restaurant made food you would like, but many seem more interested in telling you their personal preferences.

 

 If you were interested in the nutritional value of a meal, rather than its entertainment value, then you would want to hear from a nutritionist. I would not expect a critic, cook, or chef, no matter their experience, to provide any useful information on the science of nutrition.

 

Back to shoes. Can someone clarify what I thought I read about resoling? If I understand correctly, preserving the welt for several resoles requires stitching the welt to the sole by hand, using the existing holes in the welt. Stitching by machine would punch new holes, and make the welt deteriorate far faster. Is that correct? If so, does anyone have any idea how many cobblers do this? I am sure I have seen the soles stitched on by machine, but I did not at the time consider the implications, nor did I know whether they had replaced the welt before doing this. 

 

Or do I have it all wrong?

post #874 of 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post
 
 all you need do is give them enough rope and they will hang themselves. And this chucklehead (and a chucklehead he was despite his unquestioned expertise) was gathering rope for himself by the armful. When he was cross-examined, he displayed previously unplumbed depths of arrogant condescension

 

Just wanted to point out that this is very nice writing.

 

I am sure I am going to have cause to use the line about condescension. Another plus of the caliber of people on this thread. 

post #875 of 1701
Well . . . I can't say my question about the relative coat of ownership of handsewn shoes resulted in precisely the conversation for which I was hoping.
post #876 of 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhdnhdbh View Post

 

Just wanted to point out that this is very nice writing.

 

I am sure I am going to have cause to use the line about condescension. Another plus of the caliber of people on this thread. 

 



Thank you sir.
post #877 of 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

However, I don't think that is what's generally the case in this thread (heated emotion that reaches it's boiling point aside). Also, I would just point you back to the very first item on the article's list of conclusions: "We can all stipulate: the expert isn't always right." Also, the heated emotion that is already simmering is understandable when it's placed in the context of a society or atmosphere that the article is directly addressing.
The article more than adequately addresses this. It's become rampant in modern culture.

The man is a troll. He's been a troll since he came on SF. He demands respect for his singularly uninformed POV...demands that we all listen--like a petulant child throwing a tantrum--yet he doesn't read or listen or respect any viewpoint unless it agrees with his own. He didn't read the article...he skimmed it; he didn't read your post, he filtered it for weaknesses that he could dispute.

He has never contributed anything of substance to this discussion except contentiousness and gratuitous obsequiousness and apocrypha (such as is illustrated several posts up) and he is the main reason this thread is so unsettled.

Most of my posts--80%?--in this thread are answering questions (questions directed specifically at me) from the vantage point of four decades of work and experience in one field--from the viewpoint of a shoemaker.

Most of his are mindless, unsolicited, dismissals from the viewpoint of someone who is ignorant of any real knowledge or experience but determined not to let that stop him from being a dick.

He's the posterboy for the quote from Macbeth (Act V, Scene V).



--
Edited by DWFII - 2/4/14 at 4:02pm
post #878 of 1701
True colours on display.
post #879 of 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post
You don't have to cook to appreciate food.

 

It could affect your appreciation if you knew what was going on back of house.

post #880 of 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhdnhdbh View Post
 

Back to shoes. Can someone clarify what I thought I read about resoling? If I understand correctly, preserving the welt for several resoles requires stitching the welt to the sole by hand, using the existing holes in the welt. Stitching by machine would punch new holes, and make the welt deteriorate far faster. Is that correct? If so, does anyone have any idea how many cobblers do this? I am sure I have seen the soles stitched on by machine, but I did not at the time consider the implications, nor did I know whether they had replaced the welt before doing this.

 

Or do I have it all wrong?

 

Stitching a new welt to the gemming by hand (through the original holes in the upper and gemming) when the welt needs to be replaced is the other half of that.  As for how many cobblers do this, I have no number for you (and doubt anyone does).  But, in my experience, they are as rare and precious as gold.  I was glad to hear that B. Nelson does.  This small outfit in Durham, North Carolina will do it: http://www.mainstreetshoerepair.com/.  For what it's worth, the owner of this shop in Durham trained under Marcell Mrsan of Koronya, in Budapest.  He's young, doesn't have tons of experience, and probably doesn't deal with the large scale mail order system that B. Nelson does, but you have to start somewhere. 

post #881 of 1701
Although I don't enjoy the sniping, I am constantly amazed by the intensity of emotion over bits of leather for the feet. I mean, I care about shoes, and all. But I doubt I will ever get to the point where my biggest problem was that some anonymous guy on the internet disagreed with me about something. If I do get there, I will be so happy I might stop smoking crack.

With hesitation, I ask those who apparently enjoy the sniping whether they find that shouting at strangers online really brings about a desired effect? If the desired effect is converting a discussion to a fight, then it probably works. If the goal is to enhance the discussion, not so much.

I am sure all are perfect gentlemen in person. Can we keep the passion, but apply conventional standards of manners?
post #882 of 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoneyWellSpent View Post

 

Stitching a new welt to the gemming by hand (through the original holes in the upper and gemming) when the welt needs to be replaced is the other half of that.  As for how many cobblers do this, I have no number for you (and doubt anyone does).  But, in my experience, they are as rare and precious as gold,  I was glad to hear that B. Nelson does.  This small outfit in Durham, North Carolina will do it: http://www.mainstreetshoerepair.com/.  For what it's worth, the owner of this shop in Durham trained under Marcell Mrsan of Koronya, in Budapest.  He's young, doesn't have tons of experience, and probably doesn't deal with the large scale mail order system that B. Nelson does, but you have to start somewhere. 

 



Likely true. But when there is an established facility like B. Nelson who are up to the task, the rarity is less of a concern. The ever-expanding reality of e-commerce has moved us away from paradigm of purchasing shoes only from the local store and taking them only to the local cobbler for repairs. I credit AEs promotion of their recrafting service with bringing awareness of this type of service to a broader range of customers.
post #883 of 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post
 

Likely true. But when there is an established facility like B. Nelson who are up to the task, the rarity is less of a concern. The ever-expanding reality of e-commerce has moved us away from paradigm of purchasing shoes only from the local store and taking them only to the local cobbler for repairs. I credit AEs promotion of their recrafting service with bringing awareness of this type of service to a broader range of customers.

 

Agree.  I won't lose sleep over it as long as there is a place like B. Nelson that is so easily accessible, even if you don't live anywhere near NYC. 

post #884 of 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhdnhdbh View Post

Quite a digression from welting, but my two cents.
Back to shoes. Can someone clarify what I thought I read about resoling? If I understand correctly, preserving the welt for several resoles requires stitching the welt to the sole by hand, using the existing holes in the welt. Stitching by machine would punch new holes, and make the welt deteriorate far faster. Is that correct? If so, does anyone have any idea how many cobblers do this? I am sure I have seen the soles stitched on by machine, but I did not at the time consider the implications, nor did I know whether they had replaced the welt before doing this. 

Or do I have it all wrong?

If the cobbler is willing to adjust his machine with every pair he resoles, it is not necessary to restitch by hand...even if the original outsole was done entirely by hand. I doubt any cobbler posting on this forum..oir in the US, in particular...stitches a resole by hand except in extreme circumstances...although I don't know that for certain. But if the old stitches are pulled beforehand...not a guarantee...and the machine calibrated anew, it will not punch many, if any, new holes. And only then if the cobbler is shaky / inexperienced using the machines.

Maybe someone else...maybe someone who has never done the work before...can answer that question better for you.
post #885 of 1701

That makes more sense. Is it a matter of adjusting the spacing between stitches to match that on each pair of shoes? Sounds tedious, but less so than stitching by hand.

 

If they were previously done by machine, which I gather would usually be the case except for some bespoke, then the spacing should be very even? Does not change as one works around the circumference of the shoe? Then line up the first stitch, adjust the length of the stitches, and it is still a quick job with a machine? I had visions of cobblers all over the country hand stitching soles, and it seemed too slow to be practical. 

 

A related sole question: The value of the stitches in holding the sole in place. Some shoes use glue alone. I know that these are considered junk on SF, but purely as a matter of the sole staying on, how much of the bond between the shoe and the sole is the glue, and how much is the stitches? I gather that these are lock stitches, so wearing the leather down so that some stitches break or are worn away does not mean the sole falls off. But I have seen shoes with this wear all around most of the portion of the sole that contacts the ground. Yet the soles were not coming off. Is this the lockstitching, or the glue?

 

Back when this method of soling shoes came along, did they use glue at all? Or was it only stitches that held the sole in place?

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Classic Menswear
Styleforum › Forums › Men's Style › Classic Menswear › Sole Welting