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Sole Welting - Page 50

post #736 of 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


Besides, it does take a fitting or two to iron down a bespoke last. Even then, it would need further modifications for different shoe styles...

It's worth considering too that a bespoke maker doesn't just fit the foot, he fits the customer's "head," as well.

Whether the last be scanned / CAD/CAM or hand carved from a chunk of hornbeam, without the input and adjustments of the shoemaker, you could probably get as good a fit if you wrapped your foot in papier-mâché.

Which, when I think about it, makes me rethink my notions about what this discussion is all about--that and the repeatedly determined attempts to change the subject and / or ignore dismiss all the logic and facts.

It's not about lasts or inseaming techniques at all.

It's about standards of quality--across the board.

It's about "quality" being increasingly equated, in the popular imagination, with expedience, with immediate gratification, price, and with superficialites such as high shines, antiquing, colour, and all that glitters. And perhaps, most importantly, popularity.

Not with excellence...in any regard. Not with substance or skill or finesse or best practices. Or mindful, deliberate, human-centric aspirations.

And when you reduce the definition / concept of "quality" to the mundane, to the "good enough," to the pedestrian, proletarian or utilitarian, what are you left with...really?

I guess I'm proud of my fetishes. It's good to have a few fetishes--it marks you as something other than a rubber-stamped sterile clone of dernier cri vapidity.

I proudly admit to a fetish for excellence. For nuance, refinement, aspiration. For whatever is the antithesis of indifference, insouciance, insipidness, and acceptance.

Yes, I aspire. I think that's what lies at the core of being human--to dream, to aspire, to seek, to learn, and to strive for better.

It seems clear, to me at any rate, that for many people, these are not critical concerns. Oh well--"You can't make a silk purse...."

--
Edited by DWFII - 1/26/14 at 11:10am
post #737 of 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by emptym View Post


Certainly, I don't think I can predict the future. By no means did I claim to. My point was merely that it's possible for handwelting to disappear, which you agree with.

And I agree with you that even if one maker in the world remains, the art has not been lost, not globally speaking. But it would be lost to those who wouldn't have access to that maker for various reasons. I would rather it didn't shrink to the point where I didn't have access.

You could be about cashmere. I don't know for sure. But if I understand RJman and co. correctly, there is no cashmere in the world that is a good as it was a few decades ago. The type of goats that produced it simply don't exist anymore. This is not to say that there aren't different levels of quality in cashmere still in existence, just that one level doesn't exist. That's what some claim at least. And they know a lot more about it than I do, so I'm inclined to believe them.


Dear emptym, As moderator, my question to you is would it be possible to almagamate the interesting thread "Lasts and Bespoke shoemakers" with this one - "sole welting" ? It seems that the two threads have a lot in common, and would be very interesting discussions to follow together. If that's technically possible, I think that the subject matters are really complementary and would attract participants/readers of similar interests.

post #738 of 1792
As for my posts on another thread I am indeed exploring the options to have my personalised/bespoke last made starting from a 3d scan of my feet. I am considering 4 lastmakers, 2 in UK and 2 in Italy. 3 of them will used CAD software to create the last, and all have te capacity to take into consideration other factors such as "socks allowance" and other volumes that can be accurately placed in the right places, more then it could be done by hand. So, at least in theory, digital last making with the right input is equal if not better then traditional last making. Hopefully in few months I can report in more details about the results.

As why doing it? Well there are several options in Italy at least, to have quality factory made shoes on a supplied last. I know that white the right contacts, you could get access to cheap bespoke makers in UK too.
post #739 of 1792
Marcodalondra - that sounds fascinating. I look forward to your report down the road.
post #740 of 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

It's worth considering too that a bespoke maker doesn't just fit the foot, he fits the customer's "head," as well.

Whether the last be scanned / CAD/CAM or hand carved from a chunk of hornbeam, without the input and adjustments of the shoemaker, you could probably get as good a fit if you wrapped your foot in papier-mâché.

Which, when I think about it, makes me rethink my notions about what this discussion is all about--that and the repeatedly determined attempts to change the subject and / or ignore dismiss all the logic and facts.

It's not about lasts or inseaming techniques at all.

It's about standards of quality--across the board.

It's about "quality" being increasingly equated, in the popular imagination, with expedience, with immediate gratification, price, and with superficialites such as high shines, antiquing, colour, and all that glitters. And perhaps, most importantly, popularity.

Not with excellence...in any regard. Not with substance or skill or finesse or best practices. Or mindful, deliberate, human-centric aspirations.

And when you reduce the definition / concept of "quality" to the mundane, to the "good enough," to the pedestrian, proletarian or utilitarian, what are you left with...really?

I guess I'm proud of my fetishes. It's good to have a few fetishes--it marks you as something other than a rubber-stamped sterile clone of dernier cri vapidity.

I proudly admit to a fetish for excellence. For nuance, refinement, aspiration. For whatever is the antithesis of indifference, insouciance, insipidness, and acceptance.

Yes, I aspire. I think that's what lies at the core of being human--to dream, to aspire, to seek, to learn, and to strive for better.

It seems clear, to me at any rate, that for many people, these are not critical concerns. Oh well--"You can't make a silk purse...."

--

Your philosophy is wonderful.

In examining the contra of all you aspire to and love we see what has been lost from the latter half of the 20thc onwards.

Saying that there will always be a market for excellence.

But like threatened species and their problem with survival - once the critical mass and genetic quality is compromised - we may be on the slippery slope to extinction.
post #741 of 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelonius View Post


Dear emptym, As moderator, my question to you is would it be possible to almagamate the interesting thread "Lasts and Bespoke shoemakers" with this one - "sole welting" ? It seems that the two threads have a lot in common, and would be very interesting discussions to follow together. If that's technically possible, I think that the subject matters are really complementary and would attract participants/readers of similar interests.
Which thread is that? I did a quick search and couldn't find it. TIA.
post #742 of 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by dopey View Post

Which thread is that? I did a quick search and couldn't find it. TIA.
Well, just search for "Lasts and bespoke" and you'll find it, or even just "lasts" and scroll down the list.
post #743 of 1792
Could anyone say whether it would be reasonable to ask a shoemaker to take off a (GY welted) leather sole/insole and to reconstruct, by hand stitching, onto a last that was one EU size smaller than the size that the shoe was marked up as (EU 44 to EU 43) ? I do not, evidently, have access to the original last of the chelsea-style boots in question. They are too big for me, but I am nevertheless attached to them, and do not want to try to sell. Could this be a way of reducing the size and tightening the boots up. They are in very good condition, haven't been worn much in fact, and I don't think there will have been much wear on the linings or sections welted. I have contacted one local person by email, but he seems disinclined to respond and I wonder if the request is ridiculous. Thanks for any opinions on this.
post #744 of 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelonius View Post

Could anyone say whether it would be reasonable to ask a shoemaker to take off a (GY welted) leather sole/insole and to reconstruct, by hand stitching, onto a last that was one EU size smaller than the size that the shoe was marked up as (EU 44 to EU 43) ? I do not, evidently, have access to the original last of the chelsea-style boots in question. They are too big for me, but I am nevertheless attached to them, and do not want to try to sell. Could this be a way of reducing the size and tightening the boots up. They are in very good condition, haven't been worn much in fact, and I don't think there will have been much wear on the linings or sections welted. I have contacted one local person by email, but he seems disinclined to respond and I wonder if the request is ridiculous. Thanks for any opinions on this.



Everything can be done, but the work you describe is a real nightmare.

Basically you have to rebuild a last without essential data (so it will not be precisely as the old one); dismount everything, take out the counters, take out the toe puffs, take out the old insole. Then, assuming that the leather is still pliable, you have to cut a new insole, insert new counters and toe puffs, relast everything, welt and stitch the sole. The price will be almost like a bespoke new pair, and all resides on the colossal IF of leather suppleness.

The best thing is to order a new pair in a smaller size: and if handwelting is your desire, I think bespoke is the only way. 

post #745 of 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalzolaiFeF View Post



Everything can be done, but the work you describe is a real nightmare.


Basically you have to rebuild a last without essential data (so it will not be precisely as the old one); dismount everything, take out the counters, take out the toe puffs, take out the old insole. Then, assuming that the leather is still pliable, you have to cut a new insole, insert new counters and toe puffs, relast everything, welt and stitch the sole. The price will be almost like a bespoke new pair, and all resides on the colossal IF of leather suppleness.


The best thing is to order a new pair in a smaller size: and if handwelting is your desire, I think bespoke is the only way. 
Thanks for your opinion. It is what I was fearing.
post #746 of 1792
Or you can put a pair of insoles.
post #747 of 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by wurger View Post

Or you can put a pair of insoles.

That's what I was thinking. Not ideal, but at least they would be wearable.
post #748 of 1792
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerP View Post

That's what I was thinking. Not ideal, but at least they would be wearable.
Thanks for suggesting, but it's also a matter of appearance - they really look too big.
post #749 of 1792

Sorry to hijack this thread, but it seems to be the most appropriate for this question.

 

I have noticed that some producers put a small tab of leather where the vamp meets the lacing opening to cover the small stitch usually found there, while other don't

 

 

Is this a sign of more attention to details or is this a simple way to hide a stitch that is not perfect?

post #750 of 1792
I think it's just a design feature, to hide stitches that connects the facing of the shoes, whether it's done perfectly or not.
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