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Sole Welting - Page 31

post #451 of 1641
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelonius View Post


Just sharing our (users') experiences. As you like to, too.

I am always keen to hear of the real world experiences of my fellow forumites, whether they mirror my own experiences or not.
post #452 of 1641
As with everything on the Internet, user claimed experiences needs to be discounted by 80%.
post #453 of 1641
"15足あて2週間のローテーションがめたら20年はOK." - Tony Gaziano article on Men's Ex, ultimate shoe maintenance edition

15 pairs rotation for two weeks should last 20 years.

Vender claimed 20 years equates to 40 years on the internet and 15 years in real life.

YMMV.
post #454 of 1641
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

As with everything on the Internet, user claimed experiences needs to be discounted by 80%.

But this does apply to all internet users and posters!
post #455 of 1641
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

As with everything on the Internet, user claimed experiences needs to be discounted by 80%.

+1

I agree.

Not that it's not occasionally interesting.

And the source ought to be considered too. One person...hell, 100 people...can have very singular experiences that are, within certain definitions, unimpeachable. And still not be representative of even a statistical average, much less a fundamental reality.

I wouldn't doubt that some people could get a lifetime of wear from a pair of paper shoes...especially worn in a large rotation and on rose-petal strewn carpets to get to and from the chair they will spend the rest of the day in.

I don't even doubt that some people will get relatively long wear out of footwear when used in rough country. But for many years, such people, and such use, comprised the bulk of repairs I saw. Cowboys, loggers, linemen, construction workers, etc.. As well as Venture capital high rollers. ( FWIW, I spent @10 years on the board of directors of a venture capital firm) In my time, I've seen high end shoes and boots fall apart after six month of use.

I've literally experienced (studied, really)...vicariously...the experiences of thousands of people. Different people. Different methods of construction. Different use parameters. And all from the perspective of someone intimately involved and interested in the most minute details of fit, wear, construction, etc.. I've torn shoes apart to see how the heel seat was done. To examine the materials used to stiffen heels and toes. The fillers used (if any) on HW shoes. How valid are my experiences?

Similarly, I don't doubt that the the majority of people never experience problems with GY shoes. It begs the question, however--would they know it if they saw it? The majority of people here on SF never even knew...if they were honest...that gemming existed until they read it here on SF. The majority have never peeked under the "hood" of their shoes. Never will.

How valid are the opinion and experiences of the majority under such circumstances? Is it a prom court? Are we voting for queen?

But as implied, none of those experiences--mine or other people's...are reason to dismiss or close your mind to the possibilities that other people will have different experiences. And that's precisely what I've seen here--the closed minds, the dismissals...despite the disingenuous protestations and pretenses to the contrary.

As a shoemaker I have seen more permutations of the shoe than those same 100 people above will see in two lifetimes.

I've also been struck by the irrefutable fact that every good, conscientious, shoemaker in the world will always choose HW over GY. Not because HW is easier or faster (it's not, by a long, long shot) but simply because it addresses more of the possibilities that come along with often wildly different situations, people and lifestyles.

Those makers...if they are engaged...even those who pay lip service to accessibility, market share, the budgets of their customers, etc., almost universally choose the best materials and techniques for themselves and the work that represents them personally.

How much weight do we assign to their choices?

--
Edited by DWFII - 1/16/14 at 9:12am
post #456 of 1641
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

As with everything on the Internet, user claimed experiences needs to be discounted by 80%.
Well, you'll just have to live with that. I see two possibilities. Either you find a suitable mental algorithm to handle it, or stop reading Internet forums. Throughout life we all have to decide what to take on board or dismiss. The press is no better either.
post #457 of 1641
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelonius View Post



Well, you'll just have to live with that. I see two possibilities. Either you find a suitable mental algorithm to handle it, or stop reading Internet forums. Throughout life we all have to decide what to take on board or dismiss. The press is no better either.

 



Well, when someone like Nick - who sees both a greater number and variety of shoes than likely anyone else posting in this thread - shares his experiences about the supposed negative consequences of a given construction method or material choice, I certainly find that worth listening to.

And though the individual experiences of my fellow forumites might carry less statistical sgnificance, collectively, I also find such reports to be worthwhile reaading.

And you're absolutely right - we all have to decide what value to place upon the information communicated in an open forum. I tend to view with skepticism the claims of anyone who purports to decide that for me.
post #458 of 1641
Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

But this does apply to all internet users and posters!

Of course not. But chogall is right probably 80% of what is posted on the internet is bogus...it is either derived from incomplete information, sure-enough misinformation or represents unspoken agendas (such as public relations or profitability).

I'm not going to start sending you flowers but personally I'd much rather have a conversation with you...especially with regard to the state or history of the Trade in Britain...than the five or six most vociferous posters in this thread or any other non-Trade related forum.

Simply because I know that most of what is posted is opinion that springs from ignorance or parroted reliance on the words of a third party that happens to agree with them.

It all comes down to responsibility. At the most fundamental level most of the above people take no responsibility for that they say or copy from the internet. They don't need to. They can hide behind the anonymity of usernames and the herd. And if confronted with hard questions, they can slip away like an eel on glass and simply ignore the issue.

Just as I must (and it's a conscious choice) take responsibility for the shoes I make, I have to take responsibility for the things I say here. Sure as death and taxes some ignoramus is gonna call me on it. And I guess that's their right but it doesn't relieve them of being an ignoramus or a dick.

Again, on a personal level...on the level of ethics, and honour and even respect...it comes down to the fundamental philosophy expressed by Isaac Asimov--that too many people operate under the " false assumption (sic) that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" That's certainly evident in this thread and several others across the board (although it's perhaps more user related than subject related).

But I suspect it is nearly the defining principle of the Internet.

My philosophy...corollary to the above, really... is that "opinions are like assholes...everyone has one but they're not all worth sniffing."

--
Edited by DWFII - 1/16/14 at 10:46am
post #459 of 1641
Some people asked me about how many shoes I have. Probably somewhere around 10 thinking quickly. Several of them have cracked uppers. I wear them well past some cracks. When they get that way I use use them a beater shoes for the rain and such. As I said in the past I think there are many reasons based on some assumptions and experience. Before I get into that, on women's shoes lasting longer, DW might have a different idea, but just using some logic I think the large rotation does have to do with it, but so does style. Women's shoes generally have higher heels than men's shoes. When women's shoes are lasted they are lasted with this into consideration and lasted in a way where the foot is "flexed" more so than a man's shoe. This to me means that when a woman walks in shoes lasted in an already flexed position the leather doesn't need to bend and crease as much when they make a stride. There might be evidence of this, there might not, but that has always been a thought I have had.

On my shoes cracking: I have noticed a difference in the condition of the shoes I acquired after beginning to use renovateur. Almost all of those shoes are in the worst condition, also they are arguably "better" quality, but not arguably newer than the other older ones that didn't crack. Why is this? I don't know. Is it the turpentine drying out the leather? Maybe. Is it that the stuff just isn't very conditioning? Both? No idea, but the fact remains that reno was a constant for a while and older shoes I had that saw less reno are in better shape today than the newer reno regimented pairs.

Another factor that leads to my shoes not lasting as long as other people is I walk a lot. I live in New York City. To the subway and back is just under a mile. I probably walk about one half a mile during lunch on nice days. My shoes work a lot! So for somebody who shuffles from their house to their car and shuffles around their carpeted office of course their shoes are going to last longer. Furthermore, I wear dress shoes on the weekends too. A lot of guys wear casual sneakers or whatever. Those shoes for the most part don't exist in my world albeit maybe one or two days out of the whole year.

Another factor I attribute to the manufacturers. Some shoes simply are better made, with better materials. Some of those materials might be used for different reasons (aesthetics, style, weight, etc.) Some of my shoes went south quickly, others not so quickly. There could be Z variables along with this also, but just my experience across the different brands that I have had.
Edited by patrickBOOTH - 1/16/14 at 11:06am
post #460 of 1641
Very interesting about the reno. I've only used it on shell, and for that, I liked it a lot.
post #461 of 1641
I think it has a purpose for renovating high shine areas such as the toe and heel, but IME it sucks as a conditioner.
post #462 of 1641
See, now that's another "personal experiences" post from Pb that I find both interesting and informative.
post #463 of 1641
I'm not claiming it is end all be all though. Just my experience for others to do what they want with it.
post #464 of 1641
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

I'm not claiming it is end all be all though. Just my experience for others to do what they want with it.

Exactly.
post #465 of 1641
Personal experiences, if they're honest, count for a lot more than what some here say they should. They do for me anyway. Everyone's opinion and views are valid and can be informative. That's what discussion forums are about, after all.
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