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Sole Welting - Page 145

post #2161 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


Bo-o-o-gus!

 

What's your opinion about inseaming being tightened and potentially sunk into the upper when there's no braiding?

post #2162 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

What's your opinion about inseaming being tightened and potentially sunk into the upper when there's no braiding?

It makes the inseam tighter and more waterproof.
post #2163 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


The welt doesn't change any of that.

 

It does provide additional reinforcement to the weak upper leather, not unlike a leather Strong-Tie.

 

Otherwise the very slim section where upper connects to the outsole might fail after a few resoles.

 

Another solution is to use a midsole, and have the outsole sewn onto the midsole away from the upper/midsole joint.

post #2164 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


Another solution is to use a midsole, and have the outsole sewn onto the midsole away from the upper/midsole joint.

That's the common...maybe even universal...solution whether there is a welt or not. Esp. when there is no welt.
post #2165 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

It makes the inseam tighter and more waterproof.

Hmm. Makes sense!

How about risk of the inseaming hole pulled bigger from stress?
post #2166 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Hmm. Makes sense!

How about risk of the inseaming hole pulled bigger from stress?

How would that risk be greater than an English welted shoe? Or any seam anywhere on the shoe?

Or how do you think the the spinning...which is entirely superficial and non-functional prevents such a possibility?

Truth is, to the extent that the spinning prevents the stitching from tightening down as much as it possibly can, it makes the probability of the holes becoming enlarged even greater. The tighter the stitch the more the components--thread, upper, insole, holdfast, wax, etc.--are "welded" together. The more they function as a unit, IOW.
post #2167 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


Hmm. Makes sense!

How about risk of the inseaming hole pulled bigger from stress?

Is this an olive branch?

post #2168 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavro23 View Post

Is this an olive branch?

Maybe. If so, welcome.

But when "objective and rational discussions are (sic) damned," nothing is certain.
post #2169 of 2201

Hope springs eternal...

post #2170 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavro23 View Post

Hope springs eternal...

fing02[1].gif

I agree...it's what keeps me going.
post #2171 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


How would that risk be greater than an English welted shoe? Or any seam anywhere on the shoe?

Or how do you think the the spinning...which is entirely superficial and non-functional prevents such a possibility?

Truth is, to the extent that the spinning prevents the stitching from tightening down as much as it possibly can, it makes the probability of the holes becoming enlarged even greater. The tighter the stitch the more the components--thread, upper, insole, holdfast, wax, etc.--are "welded" together. The more they function as a unit, IOW.

 

English welt?  Are you adopting Mrsan's terminology?  Or that's traditionally how its called in UK/US?  Do you call blind welt "German welt" as well?

 

Norwegian type constructions has its inseaming exposed outside whereas welted constructions has inseaming hidden inside of the shoes.

 

Yeah that makes sense, tho spinning stitches could also be welded together but bulkier.  Afterall the hole punched for the inseaming on the upper is the same size with or without spinning stitch.

post #2172 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

English welt?  Are you adopting Mrsan's terminology?  Or that's traditionally how its called in UK/US?  Do you call blind welt "German welt" as well?

As opposed to what? Invented terminology? Chogall terminology? Marcel is a Certified Master Shoemaker. Even if I don't use his specific terminology I have far less reason to question or gainsay it than terminology coming from sources outside or unfamiliar with the Trade.
Quote:
Norwegian type constructions has its inseaming exposed outside whereas welted constructions has inseaming hidden inside of the shoes.

So? Even so what?
Quote:
Yeah that makes sense, tho spinning stitches could also be welded together but bulkier.  Afterall the hole punched for the inseaming on the upper is the same size with or without spinning stitch.

Again, this statement illustrates your unfamiliarity and lack of understanding.
post #2173 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post


As opposed to what? Invented terminology? Chogall terminology? Marcel is a Certified Master Shoemaker. Even if I don't use his specific terminology I have far less reason to question or gainsay it than terminology coming from sources outside or unfamiliar with the Trade.
So? Even so what?
Again, this statement illustrates your unfamiliarity and lack of understanding.

 

Well, remember that one time you discredited the French guild system on the other thread, questioning who is giving out those awards and recognitions.  Now if I use your type of reasoning, "certified" by whom???

 

Or that one time where you righteously correcting the Italian way of saying handmade Goodyear welted construction.

 

Just curious as to which part of hand sewn welted construction is so English that it is called English welt, or which part of the blind welt construction is so German that its being called German welt.

post #2174 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

Well, remember that one time you discredited the French guild system on the other thread, questioning who is giving out those awards and recognitions.  Now if I use your type of reasoning, "certified" by whom???

Or that one time where you righteously correcting the Italian way of saying handmade Goodyear welted construction.

Just curious as to which part of hand sewn welted construction is so English that it is called English welt, or which part of the blind welt construction is so German that its being called German welt.

What does that have to do with anything? For that matter, what does what I call certain techniques have to do with anything in this discussion? I don't care if a person is certified or not. As long as they are not claiming certification or authority or even knowledge without earning it.

I am interested in results. I respect marcel not because he's certified but because he's the real deal...not posing as an expert in issues he knows nothing about. You I question simply because you are claiming knowledge that you haven't earned. In that regard, you don't have any right or reason to look down your nose at marcel or what his education taught him was valid terminology. In that regard, specifically, marcel is the better man.

As far as that goes...in my mind, "English welt" is as good as any to indicate the difference in technique with Norwegian welt.

And as far as that goes, and FYI, most of US shoemaking techniques are directly descended from English techniques. The "English welt" and the concurrent hand sewn inseaming techniques evolved from Anglo-Saxon "rands" of the early medieval period. And hasn't changed much since c. 1500.

Beyond that I never mentioned blind welts. I know this is a lot for you to take in and assimilate but try to at least stay focused.

You make it clear that the only reason you post to these discussions is to be contentious. From my perspective that makes you a troll.

--
Edited by DWFII - 11/12/15 at 5:49am
post #2175 of 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdavro23 View Post
 

Is this an olive branch?

No. Apparently it wasnt. My mistake...

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