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Shipton & Heneage Pelham Wholecut Sizing

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Hey folks, I'm looking at buying a pair of Shipton Pelham wholecuts (http://www.shipton-usa.com/pelham-brown-calf.html 0 and was wondering if I could get any tips regarding sizing. The sizing on that Shipton USA page is already in US sizing, and they convert to UK sizing on the back-end, is what I was told.

213

I spoke to a representative just now, and if I choose a 8.5 on the website, they'll ship me a size 8 (UK) shoe, since the last is supposedly narrower. If I wear an 8.5D in the Park Avenue, does choosing an 8.5 on the website make sense? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

As a bit of additional information, the Shipton UK rep mentioned that the Pelham is Cheaney-made. Specifically, it looks to be this particular Herring by Cheaney wholecut (the MacDonald): http://www.herringshoes.co.uk/product-info.php?&brandid=6&shoeid=4376
Edited by markdc - 4/12/12 at 12:28pm
post #2 of 25
Funny, I would have guessed that was an Alfred Sargent made shoe. Anyway, my experience with Cheaney is that they at a touch wider than a US D so I order one size down from my US size so I'm 12.5D US and I get an 11.5F in Cheaney.

From their site:

Details
PELHAM

These 'whole cuts' give the wearer a sophisticated bespoke look. The Pelham is a brown brogued whole cut and the last is suitable for an average to wide foot.


Also, note the different medallion on the Shipton shoe & The Herring shoe. The Herring shoe is Cheaney but I think the Shipton shoe is Sargent.

Here are some pics of the Sargent wholecut:

316
480

I think the model name is Tavistock.
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Got it. Yes, from the sounds of it, most orders of 8.5 (US) on the Shipton USA website are converted to 7.5 (UK) on the backend, but the Pelhams are converted to 8 (UK) since they run on a narrower last?

Appreciate the additional info!

Would love if any folks who have bought the Pelhams have any thoughts...
post #4 of 25
I wonder if that rep knew what he was talking about. The shoe description as I have captured above says it fits a normal to wide foot. This is true with most English shoes, Cheaney or Sargent.
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Understood. Maybe I should just make it clear by ordering over the phone and making sure I get a 7.5 (UK sized) shoe instead of hoping they do the "conversion" correctly. Thanks for the thoughts.
post #6 of 25
Happy to help and I hope it works out for you. I think there is a coupon somewhere for $50 off so you may wish to ask them about it.
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the additional information on the Sargent Tavistock!

Seems to me like it might be cheaper to just buy the Tavistock itself? http://shop.johnrushtonshoes.com/index.php/alfred-sargent-s-premier/tavistock.html. Converting to GBP, it's less than the Shipton, even with the $50 coupon...
post #8 of 25
Actually wearing my Tavistock today. I remember inquiring about this some time ago and from what I remember S&H denied it was AS. It may be another factory since AS is targeting a higher price point with their Exclusive and Handgrade lines. Interestingly, I don't remember Cheaney making wholecuts. Either way, both AS and Cheaney are very reputable.

The Tavistock is a great shoe. the uppers are amazing (close to C&J Handgrade IMO), sole is beveled and channeled, and the last shape is versatile.
post #9 of 25
Thread Starter 
Haha, yes. I asked a bit of a leading question -- "Is the Pelham made by AS?" And they replied that it was Cheaney.

Called the US office again just now (since the UK guys are closed) and they say that they for all US shoe size orders, they only drop the sizing down by 0.5 (8.5 size ordered gives you an 8 UK). Interesting, given that 1 full size down seems to be the standard conversion, yes?
post #10 of 25
Another (minor) difference between the S&H and my Tavistock is the liner. From the picture, there appears to be a separate heel liner on the S&H whereas my Tavistock's liner is also a 'wholecut' with the seam in the back.
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by NORE View Post

Funny, I would have guessed that was an Alfred Sargent made shoe. Anyway, my experience with Cheaney is that they at a touch wider than a US D so I order one size down from my US size so I'm 12.5D US and I get an 11.5F in Cheaney.
From their site:
Details
PELHAM
These 'whole cuts' give the wearer a sophisticated bespoke look. The Pelham is a brown brogued whole cut and the last is suitable for an average to wide foot.

Also, note the different medallion on the Shipton shoe & The Herring shoe. The Herring shoe is Cheaney but I think the Shipton shoe is Sargent.
Here are some pics of the Sargent wholecut:
316
480
I think the model name is Tavistock.

The previous Pelham was made by Alfred Sargent, but later Shipton moved to another manufacturer because of the production problem at AS. That's the answer I got from Shiption a long time ago. They didn't mention who the current manufacturer is though.
post #12 of 25
A picture of the sole should clear all this up.
post #13 of 25
Confirmed by Shipton: Pelham is made by Cheaney.
Edited by lexmann - 4/19/12 at 10:04pm
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NORE View Post

Funny, I would have guessed that was an Alfred Sargent made shoe. Anyway, my experience with Cheaney is that they at a touch wider than a US D so I order one size down from my US size so I'm 12.5D US and I get an 11.5F in Cheaney.
From their site:
Details
PELHAM
These 'whole cuts' give the wearer a sophisticated bespoke look. The Pelham is a brown brogued whole cut and the last is suitable for an average to wide foot.

Also, note the different medallion on the Shipton shoe & The Herring shoe. The Herring shoe is Cheaney but I think the Shipton shoe is Sargent.

I think the model name is Tavistock.

Hmm so I chatted with a rep again, and they agreed that for Cheaney country shoes, a full size down makes sense, but that for these, just a half size suffices. I also asked about volume of returns based on the half-size-down rule, and they've said that it's worked well for their customers, so I'm thinking perhaps just a half size down will do? Let me know if you have any thoughts!

Thanks.
post #15 of 25
Personally I went down a full size on my Cheaneys but as with all things shoes, YMMV. Perhaps they will send you two pair and let you return the ones that don't fit as well?
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