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Black Shirt with Black Suit. I have to get this off my chest. - Page 6

post #76 of 133
Thread Starter 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesny View Post



I completely agree. Fit matters above all else.



The pants are finished, I just need to lose a few more pounds and the jacket will be perfect, but overall it fits well. 

post #77 of 133
Thread Starter 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesny View Post



I completely agree. Fit matters above all else.



The pants are finished, I just need to lose a few more pounds and the jacket will be perfect, but overall it fits well. 

post #78 of 133
Thread Starter 

I have to ask you guys since you've been very helpful. I think I'm going to go with this purple tie. The black suit stays but it's back to the undershirt. I understand plain white but is there any other variation other than that or is it really the only strong choice?

 

I was also thinking of doing a pink flower boutonneire to match her pink flower. I would think a white PS at that point and standard silver cuff links and tie bar.

 

Sound like an idea?

post #79 of 133

^^^^Sounds like a safe plan.

post #80 of 133
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPsi32 View Post

^^^^Sounds like a safe plan.



Do you think a white PS or a red PS? I thought it would be a cool transition from the purple tie to the pink flower to the red PS, but then I thought it might be too many colors. (Also, would a vest be too much? I like the 3 piece classic look.)

 

Also, I went to a formal tonight and I know exactly what you guys mean now. A bunch of guys did black on black or just black shirts, and compared to those guys who actually wore a white shirt and saw their outfit through it just makes a lot more sense. While the black shirts were a standard, they just didn't stand out and it was very plain. I had a friend who did a similar suit with black on black and almost a white tie and it looked like it was floating. I'm glad I came here to discuss the issue and knew before I went out to begin with. While my opinion still stands you might be able to get away with it at a nicer club without a tie, I get your guys point of view concerning black on black.

post #81 of 133
I'd counsel against the red pocket square. I assume you're thinking of one like this:

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&biw=1920&bih=965&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=3HHcCbXlWL3sIM:&imgrefurl=http://www.youknowyoulovefashion.com/gossipgirl/tag/jack&docid=vqIm7BCLiWgArM&imgurl=http://www.youknowyoulovefashion.com/storage/gossipgirl/season2/0216/0216Jack1.jpg&w=325&h=400&ei=xKOJT4iiEcTv0gHrqtXrCQ&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=351&sig=107741828796293545616&page=1&tbnh=88&tbnw=74&start=0&ndsp=71&ved=1t:429,r:31,s:0,i:139&tx=49&ty=29

To me it just looks unsophisticated and stands out too much. I'd also not do a vest - first of all, do you have a vest made out of the same fabric of your suit? If not, then you should definitely not wear an "odd" vest (i.e., one that does not match your suit) with the possible exception of a cream vest, as here:

http://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/2011/07/i-shall-wear-it-at-pitti.html

But even if you do, I'd still not do it because 1) the cut of a vest for a 3 piece lounge suit is very different than that of a tuxedo, which is what would be evening wear - to me the difference in the lines makes the 3 piece suit more distinctively for daywear and therefore looks out of place in the evening. but I may be alone in this 2) more importantly, it'll be really hot. you'll likely be in a crowded ballroom, possibly dancing, and therefore wanting to cool down more than keep warm. One principal function of the vest is to keep you warm, and for you this will be counterproductive.

Finally, I find it very rare that a off-the-rack vest really fits well. And an ill-fitting vest, either around the body or especially in the length, is always an everywhere an abomination.
post #82 of 133
Thread Starter 

I thought it might be too much, I just wasn't sure. I had a friend who had a 3 piece on last night (and especially considering the amount of extras I'm putting on the suit) I'll be fine without a vest. Also, I don't want to have to go through the trouble of finding a suit of the same material and style. Last night I wore a light blue shirt with a blue and black tie and I felt fine without the vest, so I gotcha. 

 

Would you suggest anything else added to the suit I have in mind? (Open to anyone)

 

Black Suit (Light pinstripes) [Can't change, bought suit and not huge budget]

White Shirt

Purple Tie

Pink Boutonierre

White PS (I agree with the Red)

Silver cuff links and Tie Bar

 

post #83 of 133
Well the last piece is obviously the shoes. Given that your budget is limited, if you don't have really nice shoes already, it'll be tough to score a pair. But great shoes can turn a mediocre outfit into something quite nice, while ugly shoes can negate any positive effect done by a well fitting suit and well chosen tie.
post #84 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by martinezj2567 View Post

Here's the thing, I know that I may not have the technical or style know-how like many people on this forum. I came here to hear what people had to share and take from those opinions information that I find valid. Maybe it's my egregious sense of style compared to everyone else here, I'm not sure. It seems like there is a consistent theme that black on black is immature and therefore, disregarded. As I'm sure you've all seen, there have been other people/celebrities to try the style and it had worked. Yes I get how George Clooney may be the only one and I am NOT George Clooney, but why only them? I guess what I'm asking is where does this hate for black on black come from? Rather than being dismissive and saying highschool/troll/immature, respond in more technical terms I suppose. Why can't it work? Why have people still tried if it's such a fashion no-no even beyond the age of high school? I'm more than willing to listen and if need be put in some change in the outfit if the argument is valid, I enjoy hearing differing opinions. 

The answer is in contrast and framing. The lines formed by your collar and the jacket lapel farm your face, and the added line of a tie with color adds color and texture. When you don't have any contrast between the suit and shirt, as black on black does, you lose any line you ever had. Unless you wear a bright tie, in which case you have your outfit perfectly designed to highlight and frame... the tie. Not your figure, not your face.

It can work open collar, because the open collar look allows for the color of your skin against the color of the shirt (well, if you have a light enough skin tone) to frame your face. That's why George Clooney and the like can look good- their figures are defined well by the exterior shape of their jackets, and their face is still framed. You should not try this, but it would be far, far better than ever attempting to wear a tie with such a getup.

This is also why higher contrast outfits are recommended at night. With the lower light, the higher contrast shows better. During the day, when the sun floods things with light, it's less necessary.

Wearing a white shirt and a dark suit maximizes contrast. It's also why the tuxedo is what it is. Black, white, and shiny, with lines designed to highlight and form a V shape and frame the face. If you wear a white shirt, or some other light color, all of a sudden people see the lines of the lapel that close in the middle and slim your midsection. They see the top of the lapels widening to frame your face. They see the collar around the tie complimenting the shape of your face (well, hopefully). The tie harmonizes rather than dominating, allowing it to be an element of tasteful color suiting your skintone and attire.

If you're dead set on black on black, no tie. If you're willing to admit that maybe SFers might have a point, wear a white shirt and any tie that's not plain shiny satin.
post #85 of 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by martinezj2567 View Post

I have to ask you guys since you've been very helpful. I think I'm going to go with this purple tie. The black suit stays but it's back to the undershirt. I understand plain white but is there any other variation other than that or is it really the only strong choice?

I was also thinking of doing a pink flower boutonneire to match her pink flower. I would think a white PS at that point and standard silver cuff links and tie bar.

Sound like an idea?

If the suit wasn't a pinstripe I would recommend a stripe on the shirt. But with a pinstripe suit, you're much better off going with a plain shirt and a patterned tie. Maybe a gingham (which would be a radical change and not recommended for beginners), but then you would want a plain color tie with texture, like a knit or a gingham.

I do like purple for the tie, though just about anything could work. Wear something with a pattern.
post #86 of 133
cptjeff's post (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post

The answer is in contrast and framing. The lines formed by your collar and the jacket lapel farm your face, and the added line of a tie with color adds color and texture. When you don't have any contrast between the suit and shirt, as black on black does, you lose any line you ever had. Unless you wear a bright tie, in which case you have your outfit perfectly designed to highlight and frame... the tie. Not your figure, not your face.
It can work open collar, because the open collar look allows for the color of your skin against the color of the shirt (well, if you have a light enough skin tone) to frame your face. That's why George Clooney and the like can look good- their figures are defined well by the exterior shape of their jackets, and their face is still framed. You should not try this, but it would be far, far better than ever attempting to wear a tie with such a getup.
This is also why higher contrast outfits are recommended at night. With the lower light, the higher contrast shows better. During the day, when the sun floods things with light, it's less necessary.
Wearing a white shirt and a dark suit maximizes contrast. It's also why the tuxedo is what it is. Black, white, and shiny, with lines designed to highlight and form a V shape and frame the face. If you wear a white shirt, or some other light color, all of a sudden people see the lines of the lapel that close in the middle and slim your midsection. They see the top of the lapels widening to frame your face. They see the collar around the tie complimenting the shape of your face (well, hopefully). The tie harmonizes rather than dominating, allowing it to be an element of tasteful color suiting your skintone and attire.
If you're dead set on black on black, no tie. If you're willing to admit that maybe SFers might have a point, wear a white shirt and any tie that's not plain shiny satin.

Thank you - this is a much more articulate version of what I was trying to say.
post #87 of 133

+1

 

Though I dislike analogies, think of the shirt and suit as a canvas and frame.  If you start with a neutral canvas like plain navy or charcoal gray, you have some room to play with the shirt, tie, and accessories (e.g. stripe or check shirt, patterned tie, pocket square, etc.).  Throw on a striped or plaid suit, and you now have to be concerned about balancing the patterns.

 

I agree you want the clothes to compliment and draw attention to your face.  This is another situation where knowing your color palette helps.  Low contrast complexions (Muted and Cool) do best with low contrast colors (e.g. tone on tone).  Sharply contrasting colors on a low contrast complexion makes the clothes "pop" and draws attention away from the face.  High contrast complexions have the most latitude with color choices.

post #88 of 133
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post


The answer is in contrast and framing. The lines formed by your collar and the jacket lapel farm your face, and the added line of a tie with color adds color and texture. When you don't have any contrast between the suit and shirt, as black on black does, you lose any line you ever had. Unless you wear a bright tie, in which case you have your outfit perfectly designed to highlight and frame... the tie. Not your figure, not your face.
It can work open collar, because the open collar look allows for the color of your skin against the color of the shirt (well, if you have a light enough skin tone) to frame your face. That's why George Clooney and the like can look good- their figures are defined well by the exterior shape of their jackets, and their face is still framed. You should not try this, but it would be far, far better than ever attempting to wear a tie with such a getup.
This is also why higher contrast outfits are recommended at night. With the lower light, the higher contrast shows better. During the day, when the sun floods things with light, it's less necessary.
Wearing a white shirt and a dark suit maximizes contrast. It's also why the tuxedo is what it is. Black, white, and shiny, with lines designed to highlight and form a V shape and frame the face. If you wear a white shirt, or some other light color, all of a sudden people see the lines of the lapel that close in the middle and slim your midsection. They see the top of the lapels widening to frame your face. They see the collar around the tie complimenting the shape of your face (well, hopefully). The tie harmonizes rather than dominating, allowing it to be an element of tasteful color suiting your skintone and attire.
If you're dead set on black on black, no tie. If you're willing to admit that maybe SFers might have a point, wear a white shirt and any tie that's not plain shiny satin.


Wow, thank you. Although I was beginning to understand on my own from looking at people wearing it, that eloquent explanation really put it into terms that I can understand and even explain to those that do not understand. Thank you very much. 

 

It would sound like then, if I could, instead of my black pinstripe suit for the ball, a dark navy blue suit would have been best. But I can get away with the black suit here at this formal I believe since it is strictly formal. I decided on a white shirt.

 

I'm just so dead set on trying to reinvent the wheel here (I probably shouldn't). Is a white satin shirt okay or should I just go regular? If regular, would any white shirt do or is there a good one I should keep my eye out for?

 

**NOTE** My shoes are size 13 black Alfani shoes with a square tip. I feel like they are huge and are like clown shoes. That normal?

 

post #89 of 133
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiPsi32 View Post

+1

 

Though I dislike analogies, think of the shirt and suit as a canvas and frame.  If you start with a neutral canvas like plain navy or charcoal gray, you have some room to play with the shirt, tie, and accessories (e.g. stripe or check shirt, patterned tie, pocket square, etc.).  Throw on a striped or plaid suit, and you now have to be concerned about balancing the patterns.

 

I agree you want the clothes to compliment and draw attention to your face.  This is another situation where knowing your color palette helps.  Low contrast complexions (Muted and Cool) do best with low contrast colors (e.g. tone on tone).  Sharply contrasting colors on a low contrast complexion makes the clothes "pop" and draws attention away from the face.  High contrast complexions have the most latitude with color choices.


I think I asked this before, but being tan and hispanic, what would be some good color contrasts for my complexion?

 

post #90 of 133

Sight unseen, I would guess you're medium contrast.  Generally, avoid yellow and yellow based colors.  Don't get bogged down by this.  You may need to experiment with colors to figure out what you like, and this takes time.

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