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A Daily "Mens Clothing" and "Streetwear and Denim" Fit Comparison Thread - Page 7

post #91 of 330
I'm not sure whether I should be asking aether to fix my computer or taking his lunch money.
post #92 of 330
i like aether's simply because it seems more cohesive.
post #93 of 330

At first I thought putting Aether´s fit pic  was not a fair fight, but then I examined TT´s outfit and it sort of made sense. Neither are looking their particular best. Both have too much going on.  On Timo it´s the cargo pants + double monks + golden buttons + PS. On Aether it´s the vest + short-sleeve shirt that doesn´t do it for me. I have to agree with whoever said they´re both mediocre looks.

post #94 of 330
What is with MC and these awful cornflower blue shirts? Looks terrible, IMO, just a really boring color. Both Aether and TT look terrible, actually. I can't pinpoint what's wrong with Aether's fit but it feels simultaneously try-hard and boring. Maybe the vest with short sleeves? Cut of the pants is awkward as well. TT is just bad, IMO. Monks look out of place, cargo pants are unflattering and the color doesn't work well. Even the belt looks bad, really breaks things up in an unflattering way. Blazer is too formal as well, needs wood or horn buttons and should be a bit more relaxed/unstructed. Get that pocket square the fuck out of here. Everything sucks. It's like a failed #pitti attempt.
post #95 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Thin Man View Post

On the cost debate, I will only add that for either aesthetic, there has to be a thorough and uncompromising knowledge of fit to be able to get by on sales dregs, ebay/thrifting and low-cost brands.
I would universalize that. While there may be as many conceptions of good fit as there are good designers, fit still remains a major piece of any streetwear look. And a major issue for the vast majority of bad MC posters is their poorly fitting clothes.
Of course, fit is still secondary to overall style.

you MC guys are obsessed with fit, I think there's probably point of diminishing returns and you're probably better off getting on with your life and your jackets that fit 95% well. That's not hard to do. I think SWD is (again, maybe present tense 'is' should be henceforth known as 'should be' or 'wants to be' since we get a lot of starters in this forum and it's not really inherently designed to operate at full-speed the way MC works) - I think SWD is deeper than just fit/trivia about brands/matching colors and stuff - we do that down here too, but it's not the master plan.

vox thumbs-upped somebody up there and said the an outfit from the best bespoke makers, head to toe, would run $8-12K. Since I don't really read MC, I'm curious about the names in question, just for reference. I also consider a watch to be part of a great MC outfit, that's just an opinion but obviously you could start racking up the bills endlessly with that stuff, I mean, it's kinda tempting to add something like that if you just outfitted yourself with an $8K outfit made by 'the best'....

I think, for what it's worth, a great SWD fit can be achieved for as little as $2-300 or so, if buying all brand new things, but can trip four figures with incredible ease. If one made a gallery of the really well-liked SWD fits they'd probably sit around $2-$5,000 head to toe with some lower, some higher. I think Ivwri's fits, depending on from where he buys them, are worth about $3-5K head to toe on most days, he operates with expensive designer clothes that not all in this subforum regularly do.
post #96 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

you MC guys are obsessed with fit, I think there's probably point of diminishing returns and you're probably better off getting on with your life and your jackets that fit 95% well. That's not hard to do. I think SWD is (again, maybe present tense 'is' should be henceforth known as 'should be' or 'wants to be' since we get a lot of starters in this forum and it's not really inherently designed to operate at full-speed the way MC works) - I think SWD is deeper than just fit/trivia about brands/matching colors and stuff - we do that down here too, but it's not the master plan.
vox thumbs-upped somebody up there and said the an outfit from the best bespoke makers, head to toe, would run $8-12K. Since I don't really read MC, I'm curious about the names in question, just for reference. I also consider a watch to be part of a great MC outfit, that's just an opinion but obviously you could start racking up the bills endlessly with that stuff, I mean, it's kinda tempting to add something like that if you just outfitted yourself with an $8K outfit made by 'the best'....
I think, for what it's worth, a great SWD fit can be achieved for as little as $2-300 or so, if buying all brand new things, but can trip four figures with incredible ease. If one made a gallery of the really well-liked SWD fits they'd probably sit around $2-$5,000 head to toe with some lower, some higher. I think Ivwri's fits, depending on from where he buys them, are worth about $3-5K head to toe on most days, he operates with expensive designer clothes that not all in this subforum regularly do.

I don't know about the best bespoke makers, but an outfit of WW Chan suit ($1700), bespoke shirt ($300), Drakes tie ($130), C&J/Vass shoes ($6-700), Alden belt ($250) is >$3000, and the max you can wear the suit/shoes is once per week, and the shirt/tie once every couple of weeks. And that's probably considered a moderately entry level MC outfit.

The next level up would be lesser known Neapolitan and British makers like Napoli Su Misura and Steed, after that Savile Row, and after that Rubinacci and Huntsman and the NYC bespoke makers.

Re fit, I really don't think there are diminishing marginal returns with suit fit. Even if there were, it would be at the 99.5% level, not the 95% level. If anything I don't think there's much difference between something that first like 75% ok and 90% ok. Both will have obvious flaws. A suit that fits 99% perfectly, with good configuration and fabric, will make a strong impact in real life.
Edited by johanm - 3/24/12 at 2:19pm
post #97 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by johanm View Post

I don't know about the best bespoke makers, but an outfit of WW Chan suit ($1700), bespoke shirt ($300), Drakes tie ($130), C&J/Vass shoes ($6-700), Alden belt ($250) is >$3000, and the max you can wear the suit/shoes is once per week, and the shirt/tie once every couple of weeks. And that's probably considered a moderately entry level MC outfit.
The next level up would be lesser known Neapolitan and British makers like Napoli Su Misura and Steed, after that Savile Row, and after that Rubinacci and Huntsman and the NYC bespoke makers.
Re fit, I really don't think there are diminishing marginal returns with suit fit. Even if there were, it would be at the 99.5% level, not the 95% level. If anything I don't think there's much difference between something that first like 75% ok and 90% ok. Both will have obvious flaws. A suit that fits 99% perfectly, with good configuration and fabric, will make a strong impact in real life.

I wear something like that as my 'MC'ed' look - Korean bespoke suit I 'designed' and had made (I have several, none were near $1700 but I feel they're analagous to the Chan, maybe 90%) I wear some neapolitan brand shirts, ties and ps, C+J or some other benchmade shoes, etc. I don't spend much on the suits, but I still feel the look is quite expensive, still several thousand dollars. It certainly overshadows what I think is necessary to do a good SWD fit.
-and fwiw, my 'MC' outfit isn't really good enough to pass muster in MC, I am not a stickler about the rules. Rules are meant to be broken. redface.gif

Even though arguing fit in percentages is kinda futile, I'll have to disagree with you on the comment about the 75% to 90% fit being minimally different, I think that's a lot different. I believe once you get to about 90% you're mostly home free in the eyes of the average person who will see you. At 95% you might start feeling good, 97.5% you will definitely feel good and will elicit 'perfect fit' comments from the internet peanut gallery, and then 99.5% should be reserved for the magic moment in time when you feel the suit can't feel any better, you've pooped for the day and the trousers fit right around the waist, I mean come on...
post #98 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

I wear something like that as my 'MC'ed' look - Korean bespoke suit I 'designed' and had made (I have several, none were near $1700 but I feel they're analagous to the Chan, maybe 90%) I wear some neapolitan brand shirts, ties and ps, C+J or some other benchmade shoes, etc. I don't spend much on the suits, but I still feel the look is quite expensive, still several thousand dollars. It certainly overshadows what I think is necessary to do a good SWD fit.
Even though arguing fit in percentages is kinda futile, I'll have to disagree with you on the comment about the 75% to 90% fit being minimally different, I think that's a lot different. I believe once you get to about 90% you're mostly home free in the eyes of the average person who will see you. At 95% you might start feeling good, 97.5% you will definitely feel good and will elicit 'perfect fit' comments from the internet peanut gallery, and then 99.5% should be reserved for the magic moment in time when you feel the suit can't feel any better, you've pooped for the day and the trousers fit right around the waist, I mean come on...

Agreed that the percentage thing is not worthwhile. My point is just that there is a difference in look and feel between a suit that is pretty good but with 5% room for improvement and one that is basically perfect. The latter gives you that magic feeling, hop in your step, etc.
post #99 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

Comparison #2: 03.23.12
324

Aether looks like he's about to put a bird on it, so no.

Timotune edges it out, but still . . . just eh. I think the pants need to be a different color, borderline mall security.
post #100 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

I wear something like that as my 'MC'ed' look - Korean bespoke suit I 'designed' and had made (I have several, none were near $1700 but I feel they're analagous to the Chan, maybe 90%) I wear some neapolitan brand shirts, ties and ps, C+J or some other benchmade shoes, etc. I don't spend much on the suits, but I still feel the look is quite expensive, still several thousand dollars. It certainly overshadows what I think is necessary to do a good SWD fit.
-and fwiw, my 'MC' outfit isn't really good enough to pass muster in MC, I am not a stickler about the rules. Rules are meant to be broken. redface.gif
Even though arguing fit in percentages is kinda futile, I'll have to disagree with you on the comment about the 75% to 90% fit being minimally different, I think that's a lot different. I believe once you get to about 90% you're mostly home free in the eyes of the average person who will see you. At 95% you might start feeling good, 97.5% you will definitely feel good and will elicit 'perfect fit' comments from the internet peanut gallery, and then 99.5% should be reserved for the magic moment in time when you feel the suit can't feel any better, you've pooped for the day and the trousers fit right around the waist, I mean come on...
Look, you can question any hobby. Once you've spent time on Style Forum, you're dressing for more than the average person. Once you have the knowledge about fit, these differences/flaws are going to be obvious. Fuuma could clearly counter your Korean example with Uniqlo at $200.

I question whether the wearers of the great $200 SW&D outfits (including Fuuma) aren't paying a great deal of attention to fit. I already said that fit is secondary to overall style, but being conscious of fit is what allows people to get away with cheap clothing on either side of the forum.

As for prices, Rubinacci, Huntsman and the NYC tailors (Raphael, Nicolosi, Logsdail) all are at least $6,000 for suits. Shirts with Kabbaz and Matuozzo are $1,000. Shoes with Lattanzi are $5,500; John Lobb Paris, $4,500; Cleverley, $3,500. Hermes' belts have to run ~$1,000. I don't wear these, but I've read the prices.
post #101 of 330
yeah, the money talk went far past my original thought anyway - my idea is that if you show up with a stack of cash, MC is not so hard to do. I can go to my local MC-approved shop (Beams F) and walk out (ok, maybe 10 days later after using their in-house tailoring services that are implied and included for free upon purchase) with a head to toe fit that that MC would love, and it'd only cost many thousands of dollars and like 20 minutes of my time.
Great SWD fit? Isn't going to come cheaply, as I mentioned, but there's no solid correlation between pricetag and textile with SWD clothes, whereas it's mostly the basis for MC clothes. Quality and fit are overlooked down here, design and styling are king. The way you guys quibble about fit is beyond anything comparable within SWD.
post #102 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by impolyt_one View Post

yeah, the money talk went far past my original thought anyway - my idea is that if you show up with a stack of cash, MC is not so hard to do. I can go to my local MC-approved shop (Beams F) and walk out (ok, maybe 10 days later after using their in-house tailoring services that are implied and included for free upon purchase) with a head to toe fit that that MC would love, and it'd only cost many thousands of dollars and like 20 minutes of my time.
Great SWD fit? Isn't going to come cheaply, as I mentioned, but there's no solid correlation between pricetag and textile with SWD clothes, whereas it's mostly the basis for MC clothes. Quality and fit are overlooked down here, design and styling are king. The way you guys quibble about fit is beyond anything comparable within SWD.

I get it. Although I think the style decisions as far as mixing fabrics, colors and details in MC are generally pretty bad, aside from fit. Whether it's based on examples from the forum, Pitti or GQ, a lot of people there look bad, even those who are praised. So if they have bad ideas about these things, then they're going to do poorly interacting with a bespoke tailor (unless they trust the tailor's judgment, and he has good taste). And while many of them could do well if they just spent their money at one store, they don't.

Of course we're talking about different things. When I criticize design and styling on MC, my criteria would look fairly rules-based to you (like F. Corbera's "Coherent Combinations" thread).

My sense is that one could articulate principles that underpin the style of the best-regarded SW&D posters, but they would depend so much on individual context that they wouldn't be useful for others. I actually think the same is true to a large degree on the MC side.
post #103 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Thin Man View Post

Look, you can question any hobby. Once you've spent time on Style Forum, you're dressing for more than the average person. Once you have the knowledge about fit, these differences/flaws are going to be obvious. Fuuma could clearly counter your Korean example with Uniqlo at $200.
I question whether the wearers of the great $200 SW&D outfits (including Fuuma) aren't paying a great deal of attention to fit. I already said that fit is secondary to overall style, but being conscious of fit is what allows people to get away with cheap clothing on either side of the forum.
As for prices, Rubinacci, Huntsman and the NYC tailors (Raphael, Nicolosi, Logsdail) all are at least $6,000 for suits. Shirts with Kabbaz and Matuozzo are $1,000. Shoes with Lattanzi are $5,500; John Lobb Paris, $4,500; Cleverley, $3,500. Hermes' belts have to run ~$1,000. I don't wear these, but I've read the prices.

Don't forget the tie & ps, cuff links, watch, and maybe the wallet. Astronomical amounts to get unanimous kudos from the MC crowd, assuming you can nail down fit and coherence. Woof...
post #104 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by JubeiSpiegel View Post

Don't forget the tie & ps, cuff links, watch, and maybe the wallet. Astronomical amounts to get unanimous kudos from the MC crowd, assuming you can nail down fit and coherence. Woof...

Drake's or Marinella tie= $200, pocket square=$100; cufflinks from Arnys, $3,000; Patek Philippe watch, $20,000, Hermes wallet, $1,500.
post #105 of 330
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Thin Man View Post

I get it. Although I think the style decisions as far as mixing fabrics, colors and details in MC are generally pretty bad, aside from fit. Whether it's based on examples from the forum, Pitti or GQ, a lot of people there look bad, even those who are praised. So if they have bad ideas about these things, then they're going to do poorly interacting with a bespoke tailor (unless they trust the tailor's judgment, and he has good taste). And while many of them could do well if they just spent their money at one store, they don't.
Of course we're talking about different things. When I criticize design and styling on MC, my criteria would look fairly rules-based to you (like F. Corbera's "Coherent Combinations" thread).
My sense is that one could articulate principles that underpin the style of the best-regarded SW&D posters, but they would depend so much on individual context that they wouldn't be useful for others. I actually think the same is true to a large degree on the MC side.

agree with all of that.

There are some kinda moveable, unspoken or not well explained rules in SWD too - but knowing them is part of being down here, rather than on Honestforum or something. You're right though, it's very case by case.
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