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killing Trayvon - Page 62

post #916 of 6250
The stand your ground law is really shaking things up in Florida. It appears there is no clear consensus yet on whether it constitutes an affirmative defense or strict immunity from prosecution. Several appellate level courts have ruled in but the Florida Supreme Court has not.

State of Florida v. Yaqubie, 3D09-999, 2010
Quote:
Florida’s Second and Fifth District Courts of Appeal have now adopted the
standard and procedure enunciated in Peterson, as we do now by virtue of this
decision. See Horn v. State, 17 So. 3d 836, 839 (Fla. 2d DCA 2009) (“We agree
with the First District—that our legislature intended to create immunity from
prosecution rather than an affirmative defense and, therefore, the preponderance of
the evidence standard applies to immunity determinations.
”); Gray v. State, 13 So.
3d 114, 115 (Fla. 5th DCA 2009) (“In our prior opinion, which was issued virtually
simultaneously with Velasquez, we adopted the procedure described in Peterson.
Now, with the benefit of Velasquez, we see no reason to alter our opinion.”). The
petition for writ of prohibition is, therefore, granted with this matter remanded to
the court below for an evidentiary hearing applying the standard enunciated in
Peterson. To the extent this decision conflicts with the Fourth District’s decision
in Velasquez, we certify conflict.
post #917 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by the shah View Post

i hate to continue on the media-centric debates , but it's just puzzling. as if they want to force the racism angle but only if it's a white perpetrator

Viva la emmie. (I'm sure I did not spell that correctly but wanted to seem knowledgeable enough to know Messiscans don't usually say "la Raza")
post #918 of 6250
The name Zimmerman suggests that one of his parents was white. But I agree. Around here people would mostly identify him as "Mexican", even if he was Salvadoran or Guatemalan.
post #919 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Interesting that you claim to know a number of mediocre lawyers and their manner of conducting business. We can assume that your sample universe is larger than the sub-set "mediocre," so you must know quite a number of lawyers and their work habits to make this determination. Why would a student know so many lawyers and have experience with their work habits?

Why would this interest you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

How does it preclude proper investigation?

It seems like if you cannot arrest someone without proving the killing is unlawful, then there really is no point to collecting a lot of evidence for a homicide trial. And it does not seem like the police are required to do a thorough investigation. It looks like if the survivor says he was defending himself under the FL statute, there is a lot of wriggle room for the police to not look into it. We shall see. It's a terrible law.
post #920 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

The stand your ground law is really shaking things up in Florida. It appears there is no clear consensus yet on whether it constitutes an affirmative defense or strict immunity from prosecution. Several appellate level courts have ruled in but the Florida Supreme Court has not.

The statute seems pretty clear
Quote:
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
post #921 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

The statute seems pretty clear

Imagine that, Florida fucking up something that seems pretty clear.

But fro' really, several districts say one thing, several say the other. Supreme Court of FL hasn't ruled yet.

EDIT - It appears this incident was in the Fifth District, which interprets it as true immunity from prosecution.
post #922 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16-Ton View Post


It seems like if you cannot arrest someone without proving the killing is unlawful, then there really is no point to collecting a lot of evidence for a homicide trial.

That doesn't make sense. You investigate to see if there is probable cause to arrest and prosecute him. Why would you not do that just because you can't arrest him at the scene?
post #923 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16-Ton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Interesting that you claim to know a number of mediocre lawyers and their manner of conducting business. We can assume that your sample universe is larger than the sub-set "mediocre," so you must know quite a number of lawyers and their work habits to make this determination. Why would a student know so many lawyers and have experience with their work habits?

Why would this interest you?

For several obvious reasons? One would be, that for someone who claims to know so much about lawyers, you really not only know shit about the law but also refuse to be guided by real lawyers into thinking about this more from a legal standpoint.

Another would be what possible reasons a student has such wide ranging experience in the work habits of lawyers, medicore and otherwise. A reasonable reason for this would be multiple run ins with the law.
post #924 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16-Ton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

How does it preclude proper investigation?

It seems like if you cannot arrest someone without proving the killing is unlawful, then there really is no point to collecting a lot of evidence for a homicide trial. And it does not seem like the police are required to do a thorough investigation. It looks like if the survivor says he was defending himself under the FL statute, there is a lot of wriggle room for the police to not look into it. We shall see. It's a terrible law.

Here is (one of) the fundamental flaws in your thinking. Police do not collect evidence for this reason. They collect evidence to help prosecutors determine what their next steps are.
post #925 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

For several obvious reasons? One would be, that for someone who claims to know so much about lawyers, you really not only know shit about the law but also refuse to be guided by real lawyers into thinking about this more from a legal standpoint.
Another would be what possible reasons a student has such wide ranging experience in the work habits of lawyers, medicore and otherwise. A reasonable reason for this would be multiple run ins with the law.

Or, maybe his girlfriend is a para at a large lawfirm that has temp projects and he gets to meet many different sorts of lawyer, or his family has used enough law firms for family matters to see the high and low of attorney competency, honesty, greed etc..
post #926 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Here is (one of) the fundamental flaws in your thinking. Police do not collect evidence for this reason. They collect evidence to help prosecutors determine what their next steps are.

It looks like from the statute the police are asked to make a lot of judgment calls. Did they collect all the evidence in the Zimmeran-Trayvon case? Can we see it? Is it top secret?
post #927 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16-Ton View Post

Or, maybe his girlfriend is a para at a large lawfirm that has temp projects and he gets to meet many different sorts of lawyer, or his family has used enough law firms for family matters to see the high and low of attorney competency, honesty, greed etc..

So, you are jayvn's boyfriend?
post #928 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16-Ton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

For several obvious reasons? One would be, that for someone who claims to know so much about lawyers, you really not only know shit about the law but also refuse to be guided by real lawyers into thinking about this more from a legal standpoint.
Another would be what possible reasons a student has such wide ranging experience in the work habits of lawyers, medicore and otherwise. A reasonable reason for this would be multiple run ins with the law.

Or, maybe his girlfriend is a para at a large lawfirm that has temp projects and he gets to meet many different sorts of lawyer, or his family has used enough law firms for family matters to see the high and low of attorney competency, honesty, greed etc..

So then maybe he would not continue to present moronic views of the legal aspects of this case?
post #929 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by 16-Ton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Here is (one of) the fundamental flaws in your thinking. Police do not collect evidence for this reason. They collect evidence to help prosecutors determine what their next steps are.

It looks like from the statute the police are asked to make a lot of judgment calls. Did they collect all the evidence in the Zimmeran-Trayvon case? Can we see it? Is it top secret?

This is a far different statement than what you originally made. Rolling revision?
post #930 of 6250
For fucks sakes 16 take a break, you have been shitting up this thread for last day and neither side agrees with your juvenile opinions.
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