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killing Trayvon - Page 334

post #4996 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacatfish View Post

Both exist and are not necessarily tied together. Some understand the facts of the case, and still feel upset.

Evidence?
post #4997 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacatfish View Post

Both exist and are not necessarily tied together. Some understand the facts of the case, and still feel upset. Some are missing salient facts. Some are using it as a springboard for their own axes to grind. What I see here is rampant red herring dragging to disparage "unreasonable" outrage.

What red herrings are you referring to? The unreasonable outrage is in and of itself disparaging is it not? I tend to deal with things in a like manner. Sometimes it's the only way a point can be made.
post #4998 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crane's View Post

What red herrings are you referring to? The unreasonable outrage is in and of itself disparaging is it not? I tend to deal with things in a like manner. Sometimes it's the only way a point can be made.

The red herring is the sometimes comical posts gleaned from other sites which help to paint outrage as ignorant or unreasonable. There can be no doubt that some people making the most noise on the topic are making the least sense. What gets missed in this portrayal is that there are still quite reasonable people who still feel upset, even outraged by what happened. In spite of the trial and evidence presented. There are certain aspects to what passed that can lead one to feel upset about this death. It doesn't need to be unreasonable as it doesn't need to be justified.
post #4999 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Dude, I made a midget rape victim cry.

Damn it Harvey, stop raping midgets!
post #5000 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacatfish View Post

The red herring is the sometimes comical posts gleaned from other sites which help to paint outrage as ignorant or unreasonable. There can be no doubt that some people making the most noise on the topic are making the least sense. What gets missed in this portrayal is that there are still quite reasonable people who still feel upset, even outraged by what happened. In spite of the trial and evidence presented. There are certain aspects to what passed that can lead one to feel upset about this death. It doesn't need to be unreasonable as it doesn't need to be justified.

So where in this picture does the comments made by President Barack Obama and AG Eric Holder fit into this? Is their appearance of being upset justified or not or is it just another ruse for an agenda? Just for the sake of argument why would I be upset that someone was forced to defend themselves with lethal force because of the actions of another? If there's anything that's upsetting to me is why would a 17 year old be so emboldened to think that he could jump someone, start beating on them and then go for a gun while saying he's going to kill the guy. Where does this mindset of reckless abandon come from? Why does it appear that today's youths think there's no real consequences for asocial behavior like this? These are the real questions that should be asked. Everything else is smoke and mirrors or just plain stupidity in action.
post #5001 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacatfish View Post

The red herring is the sometimes comical posts gleaned from other sites which help to paint outrage as ignorant or unreasonable. There can be no doubt that some people making the most noise on the topic are making the least sense. What gets missed in this portrayal is that there are still quite reasonable people who still feel upset, even outraged by what happened. In spite of the trial and evidence presented. There are certain aspects to what passed that can lead one to feel upset about this death. It doesn't need to be unreasonable as it doesn't need to be justified.

To quote John Guy, I submit to you that reasonable means you have a reason. What's the reason for the outrage?
post #5002 of 6250
And in other news AG Holder has ordered a hold on returning Zimmerman's gun along with other items. I see no legal justification for this and agree that it is a violation of the 4th and 2nd amendment of the Constitution. Shame on you for shirking your responsibility on upholding the US Constitution AG Holder. Weren't you sworn to protect and uphold that document?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/18/eric-holder-steals-zimmermans-gun/
post #5003 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crane's View Post

So where in this picture does the comments made by President Barack Obama and AG Eric Holder fit into this? Is their appearance of being upset justified or not or is it just another ruse for an agenda? Just for the sake of argument why would I be upset that someone was forced to defend themselves with lethal force because of the actions of another? If there's anything that's upsetting to me is why would a 17 year old be so emboldened to think that he could jump someone, start beating on them and then go for a gun while saying he's going to kill the guy. Where does this mindset of reckless abandon come from? Why does it appear that today's youths think there's no real consequences for asocial behavior like this? These are the real questions that should be asked. Everything else is smoke and mirrors or just plain stupidity in action.

Lets back this up just a little bit. We have one persons word that he was jumped and that T went for his gun. These have not been corroborated. That T probably got the better of Z has. I don't think one person gets to decide which questions are valid and which are smoke and mirrors. There could be lots of questions from this incident. Who decides which have merit?
I do have a problem with the role of the gun. I know you are involved with ccw stuff and I have also a long history around guns. By age 15 I was a junior NRA member and competitive marksman and through the course of gun ownership I came to believe two things. First if you have a gun you are always aware that it is there as second, if you have a gun you must be prepared to use it. You and another poster made a point which I totally agree with which is that a ccw holder should be more inclined to avoid conflict than your average person due to heightened consequences. In general I think a neighborhood watch guy, if he has any intention of encountering criminals probably shouldn't carry unless they have appropriate training.
This single facet is what most upsets me. I doubt he had the maturity to handle the situation appropriately.
post #5004 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

To quote John Guy, I submit to you that reasonable means you have a reason. What's the reason for the outrage?

Nah man reasonable means you have reason not A reason. Most people who are not insane have reason (though some choose not to use it).
Tell John Guy there is more than one use for that word.
post #5005 of 6250
A ruse for their own agenda ? Smoke and mirrors ? Stupidity in action ? This is like accusing a a professional hockey player of being competitive . As if there was another politician who would have done otherwise
post #5006 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacatfish View Post

Nah man reasonable means you have reason not A reason. Most people who are not insane have reason (though some choose not to use it).
Tell John Guy there is more than one use for that word.

I have not encountered anyone upset by the verdict evidencing reason. Their outrage is based on emotion, not reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

A ruse for their own agenda ? Smoke and mirrors ? Stupidity in action ? This is like accusing a a professional hockey player of being competitive . As if there was another politician who would have done otherwise

You're probably correct but that doesn't make their behaviour any more acceptable.
post #5007 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crane's View Post

And in other news AG Holder has ordered a hold on returning Zimmerman's gun along with other items. I see no legal justification for this and agree that it is a violation of the 4th and 2nd amendment of the Constitution. Shame on you for shirking your responsibility on upholding the US Constitution AG Holder. Weren't you sworn to protect and uphold that document?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/18/eric-holder-steals-zimmermans-gun/

Crane.you did sound like a reasonable person before I read your last two or three posts.

You're making wild asumptions about the facts and try to paint Zimmerman as an innocent victim...

Zimmerman did profile T and was asked by the police not to engage him...

He decided to engage him and therefore bears some responsability in the outcome of the incident.


There is no evidence of T jumping him and if someone was trying to stop me in the street without any reason and restrain my movements,I will certainly finish punching him to protect myself.

As a profesional marksman and trainer,you do know the responsability coming with bearing arms especially in the contest of irregulated vigilantism..

We can twist the arguments in favour of T or Z but he is not by any means the victim in that case.

I was disgusted by OJ getting away with murder as so many people like to point out as a counterpoint to the Z case and I do think Z got away with murder.

What is sickening are the vultures trying to score political point over what i see as a tragedy.
post #5008 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacatfish View Post

You're the third respondent. Kind of speaks for itself dont it?

The type that does not suffer fools lightly? My favorite kind of respondent.
post #5009 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacatfish View Post

Nah man reasonable means you have reason not A reason. Most people who are not insane have reason (though some choose not to use it).
Tell John Guy there is more than one use for that word.

That is just a lazy appeal to authority. Either they have a reason that makes sense and is supported by the evidence, or they are being unreasonable regardless of how otherwise reasonable they are.
post #5010 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by lasbar View Post


Zimmerman did profile T and was asked by the police not to engage him...

Wrong and wrong. When will this shit stop?
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