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killing Trayvon - Page 324

post #4846 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Syzurp Summit.
So "public outcry" forcing public officials to charge a clearly innocent man with a crime is a "net positive" for you? Wow.

If you believe Zimmerman so CLEARLY innocent as to negate the need for due process, we can't discuss this issue, Harvey.
post #4847 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post

I didn't follow the trial closely enough to know whether or not the prosecution made it's case. I firmly believe that Zimmerman murdered that kid, but I can't really speak on the jury's verdict.

I've elected to view the trial as a net positive. The fact that Zimmerman even stood trial is proof that the people, when motivated and focused, can affect change. Public outcry got the special prosecutor appointed and and the chief of police fired. Zimmerman had his day in court. Do I wish Zimmerman had been convicted of manslaughter? Of course I do. Is Zimmerman's acquittal inticative of the failure of our criminal justice system or a proof of a racist agenda? I don't know enough of the details to say.


Just curious, why should the police chief have lost his job when his assessment (self defense) was the correct one?
Also, do you see any danger in "crowd sourced" (or lynch mob) prosecutions?
post #4848 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post

Just curious, why should the police chief have lost his job when his assessment (self defense) was the correct one?
Also, do you see any danger in "crowd sourced" (or lynch mob) prosecutions?

You see lynch mob prosecutions. I see public outrage over the mismanaged investigation of the death of a child.
Edited by gladhands - 7/19/13 at 12:53pm
post #4849 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post

If you believe Zimmerman so CLEARLY innocent as to negate the need for due process, we can't discuss this issue, Harvey.

Due process was actually subverted by the "social justice" crowd, so much so that it might have even cost them a conviction. If a lessor but better supported charge had been brought (like some sort of involuntary manslaughter or reckless endangerment) Z could conceivably have been found guilty.
post #4850 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post


Syzurp Summit.
So "public outcry" forcing public officials to charge a clearly innocent man with a crime is a "net positive" for you? Wow.

 

 

In the words repeated by so many after the OJ trial, "OJ was found not guilty but he is not innocent".  Zimmerman is just as innocent as OJ.

IMHO of course

post #4851 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post

You see lench mob prosecutions. I see public outrage over the mismanaged investigation of the death of a child.

Details?
It seems that since the result was not the desired one, certain parties have thrown out law and fact in their push for "justice." That is pretty much a lynch mob.
post #4852 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post

Due process was actually subverted by the "social justice" crowd, so much so that it might have even cost them a conviction. If a lessor but better supported charge had been brought (like some sort of involuntary manslaughter or reckless endangerment) Z could conceivably have been found guilty.

I've seen that argument. Zimmerman was grossly negligent and therefore guilty of manslaughter for getting out of his car to follow a kid at a distance of 100 yards or more, out of sight even, setting into motion the sequence of events that led to the death of a child.

In the alternative, Zimmerman was grossly negligent and therefore guilty of manslaughter in failing to evade Martin's first punch, setting into motion a sequence of events that led to the death of a child.
post #4853 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post


In the words repeated by so many after the OJ trial, "OJ was found not guilty but he is not innocent".  Zimmerman is just as innocent as OJ.


IMHO of course

Very true...

Two very polarized public trials..
post #4854 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

I've seen that argument. Zimmerman was grossly negligent and therefore guilty of manslaughter for getting out of his car to follow a kid at a distance of 100 yards or more, out of sight even, setting into motion the sequence of events that led to the death of a child.

In the alternative, Zimmerman was grossly negligent and therefore guilty of manslaughter in failing to evade Martin's first punch, setting into motion a sequence of events that led to the death of a child.
Yeah, that was totally not the argument I was making.
post #4855 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post


I didn't follow the trial closely enough to know whether or not the prosecution made it's case. I firmly believe that Zimmerman murdered that kid, but I can't really speak on the jury's verdict.

I've elected to view the trial as a net positive. The fact that Zimmerman even stood trial is proof that the people, when motivated and focused, can affect change. Public outcry got the special prosecutor appointed and and the chief of police fired. Zimmerman had his day in court. Do I wish Zimmerman had been convicted of manslaughter? Of course I do. Is Zimmerman's acquittal inticative of the failure of our criminal justice system or a proof of a racist agenda? I don't know enough of the details to say.

Prosecution should be based on facts and not emotions.

 

Several things happened that shouldn't have. The police chief should not have been fired.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/10/justice/sanford-bill-lee-exclusive/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

 

Bill Lee, who testified Monday in Zimmerman's second-degree murder trial, told CNN's George Howell in an exclusive interview that he felt pressure from city officials to arrest Zimmerman to placate the public rather than as a matter of justice.

"It was (relayed) to me that they just wanted an arrest. They didn't care if it got dismissed later," he said. "You don't do that."

When Sanford police arrived on the scene on February 26, 2012, after Zimmerman fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they conducted a "sound" investigation, and the evidence provided no probable cause to arrest Zimmerman at the scene, he said.

It had nothing to do with Florida's controversial Stand Your Ground law, he said; from an investigative standpoint, it was purely a matter of self-defense.
 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/13/justice/zimmerman-it-firing/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

An employee of the Florida State Attorney's Office who testified that prosecutors withheld evidence from George Zimmerman's defense team has been fired.

Kruidbos said that 2,958 photos were in the report given to the defense but that his report contained 4,275 photos

 

O'Mara said he learned about the missing information months after he was to have received it. "The only way that we really found out about it ... and the only way that we really found out about the intensity of the failure to give us information was when a person from their own office, a whistle-blower, came forward and said, 'I gave them that information in the middle to end of January' and we didn't get it until June 4th."

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This case stinks. The president makes comments that could contaminate a jury pool and increase racial tension. The state prosecutor who would prosecute was replaced by the governor for no reason after meeting with the parents of Treyvon. The chief of police was fired for determining it is self defense and his police department was removed from the investigation. The special prosecutor witholds evidence from the defense. There are reports DOJ spent money organizing protests.

 

The only explanation that makes sense is this is a scandal the white house can manage, and it takes attention away from Benghazi and NSA spying on Americans. It lights a fire on racial tensions. There is nothing good about this.

post #4856 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post

I didn't follow the trial closely enough to know whether or not the prosecution made it's case. I firmly believe that Zimmerman murdered that kid, but I can't really speak on the jury's verdict.

I've elected to view the trial as a net positive. The fact that Zimmerman even stood trial is proof that the people, when motivated and focused, can affect change. Public outcry got the special prosecutor appointed and and the chief of police fired. Zimmerman had his day in court. Do I wish Zimmerman had been convicted of manslaughter? Of course I do. Is Zimmerman's acquittal inticative of the failure of our criminal justice system or a proof of a racist agenda? I don't know enough of the details to say.

Thanks for your answer. Hope things are going well.
post #4857 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post

You see lench mob prosecutions. I see public outrage over the mismanaged investigation of the death of a child.

As you have admitted to not following the trial very closely perhaps you could enlighten us to what exactly was mismanaged in your opinion? Then those of us who did follow it closely can show you where you are wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post

If you believe Zimmerman so CLEARLY innocent as to negate the need for due process, we can't discuss this issue, Harvey.

Due process is only required when you want to take someone's life, liberty or property. In prosecuting Z the state wanted to take away his liberty and put him in prison. They were required to afford him due process to do so (the trial). There is no requirement for due process to NOT file criminal charges against someone.*




*At least not in normal criminal cases, excluding certain licensing, copyright, and municipal matters.
post #4858 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post


In the words repeated by so many after the OJ trial, "OJ was found not guilty but he is not innocent".  Zimmerman is just as innocent as OJ.


IMHO of course

The two cases are not really that much alike.
Z never said he did not shoot and kill T. He admitted as much at the scene. He simply claimed, and was able to show with evidence, that he did so in self defense.

OJ cutoff the head of his x wife with a fucking shovel. In her home.
OJ also claimed he never killed those two.
His defense team was able to create a reasonable doubt in the mind of a jury and he walked. So it goes, sloppy police work, quality legal work, and a snappy catch phrase got OJ off.
He has since admitted to the crime.

Whatever else you think of the two crimes, Z was involved in a physical conflict with a stranger and shot him in self defense, OJ hunted down his x and killed her with a shovel. No self defense at all, but a cold blooded murder and a crime against a women at that.

Also, the same people who are protesting today celebrated when OJ walked.
post #4859 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal View Post

Due process was actually subverted by the "social justice" crowd, so much so that it might have even cost them a conviction. If a lessor but better supported charge had been brought (like some sort of involuntary manslaughter or reckless endangerment) Z could conceivably have been found guilty.

Without "social justice" there would have been no investigation and no trial at all.
post #4860 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post

Without "social justice" there would have been no investigation and no trial at all.

That is not true in the least. There was an investigation; some people just felt it was not a proper one as it did not lead to ZImmerman's arrest. Please do not feel I'm attacking you I'm just correcting non-factual statements. If you've read any of my posts in this thread you'll know I think Zimmerman bears some sort of moral responsibility for what happened; I just refuse to swallow the created narratives out there.
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