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killing Trayvon - Page 286

post #4276 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

That's where the legal notion of reasonableness comes in. Of course somebody a wheelchair can't retreat.

But you just said one can always avoid a threat in a public place. Let's look at Martin and Zimmerman. Do you think Zimmerman could have eluded Martin? I think the slim 6'2" 17 catches the short fat 28 year old every time. You?
post #4277 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

So full of wrong. One cannot "always avoid single threats in a public place." Can a person in a wheelchair possibly avoid a healthy and robust man in his prime? I sincerely doubt it and that is just one of a billion scenarios contrary to your proposition. I am not taking a stand on SYG (SWIDT?) but what you said is patently false.

If it were not for Floridamtnman his assertion that there are no reasonable people living in Florida would have merit.
post #4278 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

When you codify something like stand your ground, you create a semiotic problem. People interpret the law as entitling them to engage in all sorts of violent action over all sorts of trivial things. And as long as the system works, there's no need for it.

Can you give 5 examples of people who interpreted SYG to mean they can engage in violent action over trivial things? If it weren't for this trial I very much doubt the overwhelming vast majority of people would have any clue about it. In PA I've had clients invoke it 3 times and none of them had any idea what it meant prior to meeting with me after the incident.

I don't know what system you're referring to.
post #4279 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree, I just don't see cowardice as a virtue.

Oh come on! There is nothing cowardly about avoiding a fight, that is pursued, and ends up with someone needlessly dying, or, in the case of exchanging gunfire, innocent people getting killed or injured.
post #4280 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

When you codify something like stand your ground, you create a semiotic problem. People interpret the law as entitling them to engage in all sorts of violent action over all sorts of trivial things. And as long as the system works, there's no need for it.

Ah, a semiotic problem here. When will this rash of violence begin exactly? Because, you know, we do not have things like drive by shootings provoked by such trivial things as "tossing signs" and such now.
post #4281 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

Oh come on! There is nothing cowardly about avoiding a fight, that is pursued, and ends up with someone needlessly dying, or, in the case of exchanging gunfire, innocent people getting killed or injured.

Tell that to the police.
post #4282 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree, I just don't see cowardice as a virtue.
I don't think putting it in value based statements like "cowardice" is all the useful. You shouldn't have to endanger yourself to avoid shooting a criminal. If you can run away without risk rather than engaging in violence, you should, but that's frequently not going to be an option.
Quote:
I don't believe that's accurate. Certainly not in the majority of states with laws similar to FLA's SYG. If the threat of death or serious bodily injury is removed you are no longer justified in using deadly force. So shooting someone in the back as they're running away would be really hard to justify that you were still in fear of death or serious bodily injury. I suppose it's not impossible (you could have just been assaulted and the guy says he's going over to his car to get his gun and shoot you) but I can't see that applying very often.

They were talking about Florida specifically. I don't know, obviously I'm not a lawyer. Just reporting what other law types were reporting.
post #4283 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Tell that to the police.

If only. Cops shoot way too much out on the street and not enough at the range generally.
post #4284 of 6250
The only one on my twitter feed talking about this is the Goldman Sachs elevator:
Quote:
GS Elevator Gossip ‏@GSElevator 1h

#1: It's still safer for a black man to walk thru a white neighborhood than for a white man to walk thru a black neighborhood.
post #4285 of 6250
I'm wondering how long it takes for semiotics to kick in down in Florida? Was the SYG law not passed in 2005? So seven years from the passing to the Zimmerman/Martin case...and that was not a SYG case.
post #4286 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

But you just said one can always avoid a threat in a public place. Let's look at Martin and Zimmerman. Do you think Zimmerman could have eluded Martin? I think the slim 6'2" 17 catches the short fat 28 year old every time. You?

I know what we did when we thought some perv was following us or when we were pulling pranks and didn't want to get caught--- we ran like the wind and tried to get the hell away.
post #4287 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Tell that to the police.

Come on HB.... you know you can trust the Police. Nothing to worry about there.
post #4288 of 6250
Quote:
And according to Florida law, Zimmerman should be shot and killed very quickly. Anyone has a right to fear for their life around Zimmerman, thus anyone could kill Zimmy in Florida and get off on a jury trial.

facepalm.gif
post #4289 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

If only. Cops shoot way too much out on the street and not enough at the range generally.

Perhaps we share come common ground after all.
post #4290 of 6250
Okay, Hayward, I owe you an apology. Apparently semiotics works quite well on left wing moonbats.
Quote:
A CCW owner sees George Zimmerman walking down the street from him.

CCW owner shoots him dead, citing SYG - fearing for his life.

Justifiable homicide under Florida law, once GZ gets his gun back.. (and according to the jury)

Just something for GZ to think about....
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