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killing Trayvon - Page 276

post #4126 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant702 View Post

I bet'cha the lint at the bottom of my right pocket, Z will not see 2014!

all nike has to offer is some limited edition overpirced tacky shoe and he will be forgotten faster than you can say grape soda.
post #4127 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarphe View Post

all nike has to offer is some limited edition overpirced tacky shoe and he will be forgotten faster than you can say grape soda.

Settle down, Scarphe.
post #4128 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Because all black people think alike, you guys mean? There are black people who thought OJ was guilty, you know. Of course certain attitudes, beliefs, etc. are more prevalent among certain demographic or affinity groups than others. And trial lawyers (and others) pander to that quite frequently. But the notion that we could predict how two randomly selected black folks might have voted is completely absurd. I've been generally impressed by the level of discourse from pretty much everybody in this thread. It would be a shame to see it go to shit now.

"Because all black people think alike"

 

98%+ voted for Obama. If you look at the Mormon vote for Romney, it was in the 73% range, and mormons are considered clannish.

 

I don't think black people think alike, but there are indicators that on some topics, you will get a remarkably homogeneous reaction.

post #4129 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsstillmatt View Post

Interesting assumptions a lot of you people make.

On the upside I have maintained my reputation as a prognosticator.
post #4130 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant702 View Post

I bet'cha the lint at the bottom of my right pocket, Z will not see 2014!

Sounds like that is what you are hoping for.
post #4131 of 6250
Z should take that settlement money, buy himself a house in south america, and get a bunch of plastic surgery. no way hes going to make it in the streets.
post #4132 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I am still most surprised that this came back yesterday and he was cleared of all charges. I think that was the correct verdict but really was not expecting it. We still should not forget Zimmerman did kill Martin and it was most certainly an avoidable event triggered by Zimmerman's decisions. This whole fiasco has only racially polarized the willing fools (both sides) more and convinced willing fools there is no place for them in US society. I think the damage this circus has created is hard to fathom...and Chicago has had how many black male teenagers murdered in the last month?


Caring about the Chicago bloodbath is simply not lucrative enough. This is racial capitalism; not some charity.
post #4133 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by jebarne View Post

"Because all black people think alike"

98%+ voted for Obama. If you look at the Mormon vote for Romney, it was in the 73% range, and mormons are considered clannish.

I don't think black people think alike, but there are indicators that on some topics, you will get a remarkably homogeneous reaction.

98% has to do more with the GOP's Southern Strategy than Obama. There's nothing that corresponds to that with respect to Democrats and Mormons.
post #4134 of 6250
Not that I think he would have to, but why does Zimmerman care whether has to testify in a civil suit? What hard questions are there for him to answer that he hasn't already addressed in the five or six interviews he did with the police?
post #4135 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVaguy View Post

98% has to do more with the GOP's Southern Strategy than Obama. There's nothing that corresponds to that with respect to Democrats and Mormons.

So you really think the Southern Strategy is impacting black voters decisions in voting for Obama in cities like Detroit, Philly, Chicago? You really think the vast surge in black voter participation in 2008 was not because a black man was the candidate? rolleyes.gif
post #4136 of 6250

The Nation's quasi-Stalinist rhetoric aside, I don't disagree.

Perhaps I am being obtuse, but it seems like a lot of people in this thread fail to understand the nuance of racism. There are an infinite number of shades of white, pink, red, brown, and black, and none of them necessarily like or respect each other in many places. Africa, Latin America, and the Caribbean are chock-full of social structures where one group thinks they're better than the others because they see themselves as more civilized, more evolved, or simply "more white". Even if you regard George Zimmerman as not being white based strictly on his DNA, it's pretty clear that he and his family are white acculturated. And to argue that he is incapable of racism because he has had isolated positive interactions with black folks in certain circumstances, or even on a regular basis, is ridiculous.

He picked on Martin because of how he looked. Every time he saw someone who looked like Trayvon Martin in his neighborhood he called the police, even when there was no reason to. That doesn't necessarily mean that he wasn't subsequently put in a position where he had to legally defend himself. But it certainly casts a lot of doubt on his side of the story.

And in the final analysis here,the possibility that Zimmerman's take on events was accepted by the jury due to their own racist assumptions about Trayvon Martin is inescapable. That may not necessarily be the case. But it Zimmerman Drew and shot his firearm after he was engaged by Martin, how come none of Martin's DNA is on the handgun? Shootings, especially at close range, are not squeaky clean like you see on TV.

The best you can say here is that there was not enough evidence to convict. So the process worked, but the institution failed.
post #4137 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

So you really think the Southern Strategy is impacting black voters decisions in voting for Obama in cities like Detroit, Philly, Chicago? You really think the vast surge in black voter participation in 2008 was not because a black man was the candidate? rolleyes.gif

Democrats focused on turnout in 2008 and 2012 whereas GOP didn't. (In 2004 both parties went for turnout in their bases). For whatever reason, despite the vast money resources in 2012, the GOP had no turnout machine and didn't bother to build one. Easiest place for Democrats to get turnout is in the cities, where you have more voters per square mile.

Percentages are bigger, but not drastically so. Clinton, Gore, and Kerry all got mid-90s (some polls say Kerry high 80's, but those are wrong from what I've seen). Even Dukakis got nearly 90% while losing by 8% and Mondale got 86% while losing by nearly 20%. Difference is since 2004 primaries, Democrats have finally gotten a money source (the Internet) that gives them the ability to finance elections and turnout.

Edit:

There's a series of exit polls by roughly the same source (the news consortiums) here:
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_12.html (2012 - 93% D) (D got 51%)
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_08.html (2008 - 95% D) (D got 53%)
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_04.html (2004 - 88% D) (D got 47%)
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_00.html (2000 - 90% D) (D got 49%)
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_96.html (1996 - 84% D) Note - 3 way election. (D got 49%)
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_92.html (1992 - 83% D) Note - 3 way election. (D got 43%)
http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_88.html (1988 - 89% D) (D got 46%)

Note that Obama actually got 93% versus Romney in 2012, not 98+% as the poster alleges.

The more instructive number might be the Dem-Gop number and compare that with the overall voting margins. Clinton does get closer to 90 when you only look at D v. GOP - many voters who voted for Perot in 1992-96 would have been disaffected or unlikely to vote that year but for the presence of a 3rd option. Obama's 95% comes with his 53% nationwide - he was winning nearly everywhere. When he drops 2 points with the nation; he drops 2 points with the demographic.
Edited by NoVaguy - 7/14/13 at 2:00pm
post #4138 of 6250
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2013/07/14/legal-insights-on-the-zimmerman-verdict/
Quote:
Still, according to Mr. Dressler, the law played a role in the trial.

The statute itself places the burden of persuasion regarding self-defense on the prosecutor — to prove that the defendant did NOT act in self-defense. In the past, in most states, if a defendant claimed self-defense, it was up to the defendant to prove he DID act in self-defense. So the SYG law in this case had an important legal impact.

This guy wrote a textbook on criminal law and doesn't even know the burden of proof is on the prosecution to disprove self defense in pretty much every state, and has been for a long time -- long before stand your ground? Or is he just trying to be misleading?
post #4139 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

The Nation's quasi-Stalinist rhetoric aside, I don't disagree.

Perhaps I am being obtuse, but it seems like a lot of people in this thread fail to understand the nuance of racism. There are an infinite number of shades of white, pink, red, brown, and black, and none of them necessarily like or respect each other in many places. Africa, Latin America, and the Caribbean are chock-full of social structures where one group thinks they're better than the others because they see themselves as more civilized, more evolved, or simply "more white". Even if you regard George Zimmerman as not being white based strictly on his DNA, it's pretty clear that he and his family are white acculturated. And to argue that he is incapable of racism because he has had isolated positive interactions with black folks in certain circumstances, or even on a regular basis, is ridiculous.

He picked on Martin because of how he looked. Every time he saw someone who looked like Trayvon Martin in his neighborhood he called the police, even when there was no reason to. That doesn't necessarily mean that he wasn't subsequently put in a position where he had to legally defend himself. But it certainly casts a lot of doubt on his side of the story.

And in the final analysis here,the possibility that Zimmerman's take on events was accepted by the jury due to their own racist assumptions about Trayvon Martin is inescapable. That may not necessarily be the case. But it Zimmerman Drew and shot his firearm after he was engaged by Martin, how come none of Martin's DNA is on the handgun? Shootings, especially at close range, are not squeaky clean like you see on TV.

The best you can say here is that there was not enough evidence to convict. So the process worked, but the institution failed.

This is nothing more than rote restatement of questionable ideology if you agree with the package you agree with the conclusions.
post #4140 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post



The best you can say here is that there was not enough evidence to convict. So the process worked, but the institution failed.

Bolded is the entire point. Zimmerman's story was plausible and consistent with the evidence, while the State was reduced to speculating and asking the jury to fill in the blanks. The stuff about the lack of DNA doesn't mean anything. A lack of evidence is not evidence. And his motivations for following Trayvon are utterly immaterial to the issue of his guilt. It's 100% sideshow and a perfect example of how this prosecution was never about the State thinking they had a case, but about a DA feeling political pressure to take on a weak case.

Not sure which institution you are accusing of which failure here. I would say the Sanford County DA's office failed George Zimmerman and the County's taxpayers by putting this circus on.
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