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post #4036 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddievddr10 View Post

im on msnbc, loving it

No Chris Mathews yet.

Can't wait to see his theatrics!

And about your question. Can you imagine if Z kills someone else in self defense, white or black. Stranger things have happened.
post #4037 of 6250
There seems to be a lot of "change the law" stuff going around. And there's also a ton of "so I guess this means open season on black people", as if this were the first person ever acquitted of a crime.
post #4038 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

Really? What DID it hinge on then? Zimmerman had no business drawing down on Martin unless Martin was rushing him. If Zimmerman drew first, then Martin had every right to rush him and beat his head into the pavement until he was no longer a threat. Just as Zimmerman had every right to draw and shoot Martin if Martin had rushed him first. Stand your ground doesn't apply in either case. It's pure and simple fear of bodily harm and/or death.

The facts of the case do not speak to who engaged whom, and therefore the outcome of the case could not hinge on such a paradigm. I understand and sympathize with the suggestion that wrongfully drawing your weapon upon someone ('assault') opens the door for acts of self-defense by the other party, but that is simply outside the scope of this case. That being said, it *seems* to me that Mr. Zimmerman's greatest asset in criminal defense was the fact that Mr. Martin is no longer living and cannot speak to the unfolding of events.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

George Zimmerman decided to stalk a black kid because he didn't like the look of a black kid on his turf. I think that's ridiculously apparent here. His actions are completely based on bias. That didn't entitle Trayvon Martin to try and beat the shit out of him, of course. But is that what happened? Will we ever really know?

To be fair, this is a speculative point. One could just as easily say Mr. Zimmerman is biased against youths (does the word 'punk' sound familiar to anyone else?). Sure, it is possible Mr. Zimmerman was censoring himself when speaking with the telephone correspondents and is therefore a less-than-closeted racist, but no assumptions can be made about Mr. Zimmerman's mindset with any degree of certainty aside for the fact that he felt comfortable confronting someone in a manner that was not exactly.. judicious or methodical.

Edits: Grammar.
Edited by SeanathonHuff - 7/13/13 at 9:09pm
post #4039 of 6250
Well, I was wrong. I still give it 50/50 Zimmerman is murdered in the next year.
post #4040 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

There seems to be a lot of "change the law" stuff going around. And there's also a ton of "so I guess this means open season on black people", as if this were the first person ever acquitted of a crime.

He was acquitted of the charges.

So he did not commit a crime.

The gangbangers in Chicago that kill each other every week commit crimes.

And that goes for whites or blacks.
post #4041 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

There seems to be a lot of "change the law" stuff going around. And there's also a ton of "so I guess this means open season on black people", as if this were the first person ever acquitted of a crime.

That's because there's a perception that standards are unequal.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/race-plays-complex-role-in-floridas-stand-your-ground-law/1233152
post #4042 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by aravenel View Post

Can someone explain to me, non-ironically, non-hysterically, why people are so seriously infuriated that he got off? I haven't followed this terribly closely, but people are straight up losing it over this.

As far as I can tell, Zimmerman was a dumbass and got himself into a bad situation that escalated out of control. But he wasn't on trial for being a dumbass, he was on trial for murder, and the prosecution obviously was not able to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Whether or not he should have been in that situation to begin with doesn't seem to even matter.

And why do people think this was racially motivated? Being a dumbass has nothing to do with race.

I'm genuinely curious.

Short answer: it was a left wing cause celebre. Zimmerman kind of fucked it up by being somewhat nonwhite, but he was still a "racist" and a "gun nut", so he was a perfect villain.
post #4043 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

Really? What DID it hinge on then? Zimmerman had no business drawing down on Martin unless Martin was rushing him. If Zimmerman drew first, then Martin had every right to rush him and beat his head into the pavement until he was no longer a threat. Just as Zimmerman had every right to draw and shoot Martin if Martin had rushed him first. Stand your ground doesn't apply in either case. It's pure and simple fear of bodily harm and/or death.

George Zimmerman decided to stalk a black kid because he didn't like the look of a black kid on his turf. I think that's ridiculously apparent here. His actions are completely based on bias. That didn't entitle Trayvon Martin to try and beat the shit out of him, of course. But is that what happened? Will we ever really know?

He profiled him criminally (Daryl Parks words btw), wandering around looking through houses in the rain, in the context of the recent rash of burglaries in the neighborhood. George Zimmerman mentored black kids, stood up for black man Sherman Ware against the Sanford PD, has a black great grandfather; black professor , black friends, and black neighbors testified to his good character. George Zimmerman is not a racist.
post #4044 of 6250
Weird how black on black violence which kills so much more is ignored, but one isolated murder brings the black community together, I wish they would protest those murders
post #4045 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

That's because there's a perception that standards are unequal.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/race-plays-complex-role-in-floridas-stand-your-ground-law/1233152

This case wasn't about stand your ground. What Zimmerman described is self defense in every state.

Anyway, if juries in Florida are racist, it's not because of their laws on justiifiable homicide.
post #4046 of 6250
To the lawyers on here.

The media behaved disgracefully (surprise surprise) from the start of this clusterfuck. Will Z be able to sue them for civil damages? I am thinking specifically of the deceptive editing of the 911 tape making it appear Z was focused on Martins race but I am sure there are other instances of media distortion.
post #4047 of 6250
OMFG. My Canuck friends and relatives all need to be checked into a safe place for the weekend. They've fucking lost it over this verdict.
post #4048 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by diniro View Post

He profiled him criminally (Daryl Parks words btw), wandering around looking through houses in the rain, in the context of the recent rash of burglaries in the neighborhood. George Zimmerman mentored black kids, stood up for black man Sherman Ware against the Sanford PD, has a black great grandfather; black professor , black friends, and black neighbors testified to his good character. George Zimmerman is not a racist.

Eugene Terreblanche had a black lover, so I guess he wasn't a racist after all. Also, I guess you never saw "A Soldier's Story." There are many different colors of racism, as it were. Including bias based on self-loathing. What we do know is that George Zimmerman, given his history, has never thought clearly about anything in his life.
post #4049 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

This case wasn't about stand your ground. What Zimmerman described is self defense in every state.

I'm aware of that, and if you read my post above, you'll know that I articulated just that. What is clear is that whatever the grounds for defense, they aren't applied equally in Florida.
post #4050 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayward View Post

Eugene Terreblanche had a black lover, so I guess he wasn't a racist after all. Also, I guess you never saw "A Soldier's Story." There are many different colors of racism, as it were. Including bias based on self-loathing. What we do know is that George Zimmerman, given his history, has never thought clearly about anything in his life.

Not only are there "many different colors of racism" , this case actually gave birth to a new one, White Hispanic.
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