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killing Trayvon - Page 227

post #3391 of 6250
Pretty much sums up liberalism and how it affects race relations in America today.


post #3392 of 6250
Not really, but thanks for trying.
post #3393 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

I'd like to see the defense move for a directed verdict at the close of the Starr's case. Or not even put on a defense. The prosecution has been so laughable so far.
To the limited extent I have followed, I'm inclined to agree with Harvey.
post #3394 of 6250
The burden on the State to defeat a directed verdict is so low (and the judge in this case is so hostile to the defense), there's no way of it being granted. That's why they didn't ask for the "stand your ground" hearing.

Self-defense is tricky. Nominally, it's an affirmative defense, but in theory it's supposed to be on the prosecutors to prove that it wasn't self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. But for some reason that doesn't seem to happen in real life. You put those murky questions of intent and "reasonableness" to the jury, and they can do whatever they want with it.

In the unlikely event Zimmerman is convicted, a new trial, on the other hand, would be appropriate. But again I doubt this judge would grant it.
post #3395 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

The burden on the State to defeat a directed verdict is so low (and the judge in this case is so hostile to the defense), there's no way of it being granted. That's why they didn't ask for the "stand your ground" hearing.

Self-defense is tricky. Nominally, it's an affirmative defense, but in theory it's supposed to be on the prosecutors to prove that it wasn't self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. But for some reason that doesn't seem to happen in real life. You put those murky questions of intent and "reasonableness" to the jury, and they can do whatever they want with it.

In the unlikely event Zimmerman is convicted, a new trial, on the other hand, would be appropriate. But again I doubt this judge would grant it.
I think you know this, but obviously whether you think you can win the motion and whether you should bring it are not always the same analysis.
post #3396 of 6250
In my state you have to bring the motion to preserve your right to appeal; everyone does it in every case.
post #3397 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawyerdad View Post

Not really, but thanks for trying.

Which part was left out?
post #3398 of 6250
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/06/29/the-alicia-stanley-story-the-only-real-mom-trayvon-martin-ever-knew/

^^ Tells the story of Martin's upbringing and how he ended up living with his real mother, at age 15 or so.

The hypothesis is that Martin got into the drugs and the thug bullshit when his father left his stepmother for another woman and dumped poor Trayvon off with his mother.
post #3399 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

Pretty much sums up liberalism and how it affects race relations in America today.

Sort of has elements of incomplete truth in it. I mean, let's face it, part of what makes her testimony so comical to so many is that she's an obese, dark skinned black woman that seems to have limited intellectual abilities and talks in a very non-standard (read: low class) way. Being black is indeed part of why she's getting mocked but her being black is not 100% explanatory. It's the same set of motivators that causes the whole Honey Boo-boo family to be so entertaining to many folks (myself included in a morbid sort of way). The US likes to pretend class does not matter but let's face it, it does. In the case of Rachel a certain set of liberals feel the need to defend her and make her into some sort of folk hero. This strikes most of us as being "off" and a bit disingenuous as no one likes to look down on white trailer folks more than UMC white liberals.

I'm just sort of rambling here but I'm trying to say something along the lines of some of the defenses of Rachel range from painful to hilarious but let's not fool ourselves and think her treatment is not due in part to race and in part to social class. Of course the fact she seems to have once believed she could lie and game everyone with impunity and has been turned inside out for the world to see helps quite a bit too.
post #3400 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnoldh View Post

Yeah, I saw that article. Sure, Jeantel understands English as well as West. And probably better than HarveyBirdman LOL

How long before Jeantel is offered a show on MSNBC. I would watch it. Many years ago I used to watch Jim and Tammy Baker on their morning show. They were as good and funny as Monty Python and they acted serious.

A Jeantel show could be a smash hit in that way. Bill O'Reilly had Megyn Kelly to help ratings. Why can't Al S. have Jeantel to help ratings?

I hereby challenge Jaeneateeal to a spelling bee. She can show up with her "spelling nails" I'll show up with a BAC of .20. Taking bets now.
post #3401 of 6250
From scanning a quick blog transcript of Nakasone's testimony it seems defense is going to get what they want in concerns to creating doubt of who is screaming on the tapes.
post #3402 of 6250
post #3403 of 6250

Well unless the prosecution is making Trayvon's character an issue in this case (which they have not done thus far) those kinds of things are irrelevant as they were unknown to Zimmerman at the time of the incident. Just like Zimmerman's prior reports of neighbourhood toughs to the police... Oh wait, why did they let that in again?
post #3404 of 6250
Quote:
“The officer once again exercised tremendous constraint and discretion of which has been my chief concern as the chief of this police department and that is changing the philosophy of this police department as it relates to being heavy handed and arresting juveniles.

“Particularly, children of color, minority children. Particularly, minority boys, such as African-American boys. The child once again was handed back to the school administration and subsequently suspended. It is during that time of suspension where this boy was visiting his father in Sanford where he was killed.”

Although this is quite disturbing. Does mean the Officer would not exercise discretion with regard to juvenile white boys? That's a load of fucking shit if that's what it means.
post #3405 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Although this is quite disturbing. Does mean the Officer would not exercise discretion with regard to juvenile white boys? That's a load of fucking shit if that's what it means.

Hard to say what it means. Many of us seem completely inarticulate when our spoken words are captured in writing - many a deposition or trial transcript has me sounding even more inarticulate and rambling than I do here, if you can believe that. (Pro tip for baby lawyers: always, always be nice to the court reporter.) But JFC that quote is painful to try to parse.

That said, it probably doesn't mean -- or at least isn't intended to mean -- the negative pregnant you've identified (although I I certainly see how it could). I think he's just being an idiot while bending over backwards to project sensitivity.
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