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killing Trayvon - Page 209

post #3121 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant702 View Post

Can you produce a DD214, to show your service of our country!

If he could, it would neither benefit nor detract from any of his reasoning, only his character, which is irrelevant to any argument he makes outside of his character.

post #3122 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claghorn View Post

If he could, it would neither benefit nor detract from any of his reasoning, only his character, which is irrelevant to any argument he makes outside of his character.

Well if he wants to call someone stupid and a troll (internet lingo) he's getting personal! I can put my whole bio on here, lets see who's stupid! I could have just insulted him deeply, but i'm not gonna give him what he wants! That's stupid /senseless and it doesn't end!  Regards, Ant.

post #3123 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

Insurance didn't cover it. I was just out the stuff he stole: it didn't add up to the deductible.

The kid actually came back a second time, but we happened to be there. The point was more that most people in a neighborhood are completely apathetic or too afraid to appear not PC to act.

Was Zimmerman overzealous? Probably. However, there is no evidence he initiated a fight nor confronted Martin.

Let's play the scenario out a different way, and say Zimmerman didn't have a gun. Assuming Zimmerman still followed Martin, now Zimmerman ends up dead from getting his head cracked against the pavement. Now what? Oh it's Zimmerman's fault for being concerned about his neighbors?

This is silly. There are any number of "scenarios" that could play out. Why choose that one? Are we to assume now (with no evidence of course) that Martin was murderous? That he was so ticked off that he would go to such great lengthsas to kill this "good samaritan" in cold blood?
It's a far length from pounding someone on the pavement (if it indeed happened) to continuing to flog an unconscious person to death. Ive seen a number of people pounded in fights. None would have committed murder if given the chance.
And as for evidence, there is certainly some evidence that Z initiated the fight. After all he did go in pursuit of this guy with a gun in his pants. What exactly happened then we will probably never know. There is no evidence Martin initiated it either. Just the word of the sole survivor. I guess history is written by the victors?
post #3124 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacatfish View Post

This is silly. There are any number of "scenarios" that could play out. Why choose that one? Are we to assume now (with no evidence of course) that Martin was murderous? That he was so ticked off that he would go to such great lengthsas to kill this "good samaritan" in cold blood?
It's a far length from pounding someone on the pavement (if it indeed happened) to continuing to flog an unconscious person to death. Ive seen a number of people pounded in fights. None would have committed murder if given the chance.
And as for evidence, there is certainly some evidence that Z initiated the fight. After all he did go in pursuit of this guy with a gun in his pants. What exactly happened then we will probably never know. There is no evidence Martin initiated it either. Just the word of the sole survivor. I guess history is written by the victors?

Martin likely didn't know that he had a gun in his pants or he probably wouldn't have started that fight.

If you follow someone that means you're initiating a fight?

People die pretty regularly from getting their head smashed into concrete. There were at least two manslaughter cases in my college town after someone punched another person outside a bar and the struck individual hit their head on the ground and died. Death or severe bodily harm is a reasonable conclusion considering the scenario.
post #3125 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant702 View Post

I have never heard of such a thing!


Neither have I and I am a patriotic American.

Well, at least, Pio's not an SMS!

I don't hide my abbreviations. SMS= Stealth Meat Smoker

Back to T and Z.

Composition of Jury = KTV, Key to verdict.
post #3126 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant702 View Post

Well if he wants to call someone stupid and a troll (internet lingo) he's getting personal! I can put my whole bio on here, lets see who's stupid! I could have just insulted him deeply, but i'm not gonna give him what he wants! That's stupid /senseless and it doesn't end!  Regards, Ant.

This made me laugh. I would like to see you "put my whole bio on here, let's see who's stupid!" just because I can envision something epic coming out of it. So please do.
post #3127 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant702 View Post

I have never heard of such a thing!

http://www.aeb.org/
Quote:
Originally Posted by ant702 View Post

If you read carefully Not Once did I call YOU a coward! But since you except it, what am I to do! Just one more thing Pio! Can you produce a DD214, to show your service to our country(USA, I assume)? I can ! I really do have respect for people like you, who sit behind a computer asking questions in a condescending tone an expect someone to respond in a lesser manner! Good job[

Ewwww. That's disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself.
post #3128 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacatfish View Post

This is silly. There are any number of "scenarios" that could play out. Why choose that one? Are we to assume now (with no evidence of course) that Martin was murderous? That he was so ticked off that he would go to such great lengthsas to kill this "good samaritan" in cold blood?
It's a far length from pounding someone on the pavement (if it indeed happened) to continuing to flog an unconscious person to death. Ive seen a number of people pounded in fights. None would have committed murder if given the chance.

Real life isn't like TV where you can hit someone on the head once and they fall unconscious. You can kill someone or cause serious brain damage with just one hit to the head. Any blow that can knock you unconscious can cause permanent damage. It's black letter law that someone is entitled to use lethal force to protect himself from the imminent threat of great bodily harm. Zimmerman didn't have to let Martin slam his head on the ground.
Quote:
And as for evidence, there is certainly some evidence that Z initiated the fight. After all he did go in pursuit of this guy with a gun in his pants. What exactly happened then we will probably never know. There is no evidence Martin initiated it either. Just the word of the sole survivor. I guess history is written by the victors?

Zimmerman says he was taken by surprise. What do you think about the fact that Martin didn't have a mark on him (except his knuckles and a bullet hole) while Zimmerman had two black eyes, a broken nose, and the gashes on the back of his head? Does that make his story more or less likely to be true? If Zimmerman was chasing after Martin with a gun, why did he let Martin beat the hell out of him before shooting?
post #3129 of 6250
If Z didn't have a gun and had been beaten to death by Martin the situation would be the same for Z. People would say don't try to take the law in your own hands, call the cops you fucking retard.
post #3130 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by texas_jack View Post

If Z didn't have a gun and had been beaten to death by Martin the situation would be the same for Z. People would say don't try to take the law in your own hands, call the cops you fucking retard.

He did call the cops. He called them on multiple occasions. In fact his calling the cops multiple times is being used to cast aspersions on him.
post #3131 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Real life isn't like TV where you can hit someone on the head once and they fall unconscious. You can kill someone or cause serious brain damage with just one hit to the head. Any blow that can knock you unconscious can cause permanent damage. It's black letter law that someone is entitled to use lethal force to protect himself from the imminent threat of great bodily harm. Zimmerman didn't have to let Martin slam his head on the ground.

That soccer ref was just killed by a single blow from a teenager. People die from bee stings and falling coconuts. Just about anything can kill you in a given instance. Im saying there is no evidence to suggest Martin would have followed through with a deadly assault intentionally. Injure? Defend? Probably. Kill intentionally? No evidence to suggest. The back of Z's head had a cut. No massive swelling, no fractures. Took some blows to the face. Big deal.
And again I dont really care what the law says. There are good and bad laws on every book.
Quote:
Zimmerman says he was taken by surprise. What do you think about the fact that Martin didn't have a mark on him (except his knuckles and a bullet hole) while Zimmerman had two black eyes, a broken nose, and the gashes on the back of his head? Does that make his story more or less likely to be true? If Zimmerman was chasing after Martin with a gun, why did he let Martin beat the hell out of him before shooting?

Zimmerman says a lot of things. Evidence is scant. Maybe he is just a shitty fighter. Ever seen someone instigate a fight they cant finish? Ive seen it plenty of times.
post #3132 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacatfish View Post


Zimmerman says a lot of things. Evidence is scant. Maybe he is just a shitty fighter. Ever seen someone instigate a fight they cant finish? Ive seen it plenty of times.

Do you have evidence Zimmerman instigated a fight? (he asks yet again of yet another person).
post #3133 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Do you have evidence Zimmerman instigated a fight? (he asks yet again of yet another person).

No I dont. Nobody has clear evidence of who initiated conflict when they met.
What we do know is that Z pursued Martin with a gun in his pants.
The rest is testimony from the defendent. Reliable? Doubtful.
post #3134 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacatfish View Post

No I dont. Nobody has clear evidence of who initiated conflict when they met.
What we do know is that Z pursued Martin with a gun in his pants.
The rest is testimony from the defendent. Reliable? Doubtful.

So then why did you ask the question I quoted? By your own admission it is an irrelevant question.

Also, Zimmerman was using an OWB holster so it was not "in his pants."

edit: Have to say I'm not 100% sure whether it was OWB or IWB. Reporters, who are notorious for knowing shit about guns, have reported both. Anyone have police report or something similar link?
Edited by Piobaire - 5/24/13 at 10:04am
post #3135 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

So then why did you ask the question I quoted? By your own admission it is an irrelevant question.

Also, Zimmerman was using an OWB holster so it was not "in his pants."

Because people are taking Z's injuries as some kind of evidence that Z got jumped. Im saying there are many other scenarios including him just beign a shitty fighter..
There are a million possible scenarios with the scant evidence we have. What we actually know is that Z pursued Martin with a gun "in a holster".
His story is that he gave up the chase, was returning and got jumped. That story would of course fly best in court because it paints him as no longer the aggressor. Now that is possible of course, but I sit here and, discounting both Z's and Martin's Girlfriend's testimony as biased, I say " what makes more sense"?:
1. the guy was running away but then decided, after evading his pursuer, to circle back around and jump same said pursuer or...
2. guy running away was caught by pursuer.

Both possible scenarios but 1 seems a little odd in most cases and 2 seems very possible in most cases. The whole story stinks and I guess Im right back to my initial post and many others here which is to say Z is an idiot and in the wrong morally, regardless of jury ruling (unless some new evidence comes to light).
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