Originally Posted by Ataturk
That's not a very honest way to flip things around because you're pretending Martin didn't know why Zimmerman was interested in him. You can say he was being race profiled, age profiled, sex profiled, whatever, but the fact is that Zimmerman thought Martin was up to no good and Martin surely knew it. Zimmerman was the adult and Martin was the juvenile delinquent. You can't take that out of the equation.
Why didn't Martin call the police himself? Or just keep on walking?
I honestly think that T was a delinquent. if he were in my nighborhood at night I would keep an eye on him, and possibly call the cops. I am not sure that T saw himself that way. on the other hand, lets think for a second that T was a kid, and Z was a man - I tell my kids in no uncertain terms never to stop and talk to or get into the car with a stranger.
what we have is a situation where they both had good reason to feel threatened, unfortunately.
It seems to me you concluded Zimmerman was at fault for this incident when we didn't have all the facts, and now you're clinging to it even as the basis for that theory as fallen away. The incident turned into something abnormal and ugly when Martin turned around to confront Zimmerman, almost certainly with the intent of beating him up. That's not a normal or reasonable or "right" response to what Zimmerman did. If Martin had just kept walking he'd still be alive.
1. I still think that Z is at fault. when you drive around your neighborhood with a gun looking for trouble, you find trouble. I don't think he's a bad guy, I think that it is marginally admirable that he wanted to help out his neighbors. but I think he exhibited poor judgment, while armed.
2. I think that you are right it isn't a "normal" response. honestly, I would probably do the exact same thing. granted, nobody in the world is going to think I am a burglar, but if I was walking down the street and a strange guy followed me in his car and then got out to follow me on foot, I would probably assume the best reaction would be to hit him first.
3. probably, if T had kept walking, or he had stopped and waited for the police, he would be alive.
4. it seems that the same people who hate to let the TSA check their bags also think it is very reasonable that T should have stopped and let a civilian detain him and wait for the police to search him and possibly take him for some questioning. I agree - T should have waited for the cops and cleared everything up, he would still be alive. and, just like I understand that Z did what he did because he believed it was the right thing, I can see why T didn't want to stop, even if that evening he wasn't looking to do something illegal.
Originally Posted by Piobaire
Do you feel this parallels the Zimmerman case or
have you subtly changed your scenario from what is alleged to have happened between Zimmerman and Martin?
ok, so that isn't an exact parallel to the case - but so many of the same people who here are horrified that T jumped on Z and punched him, but have argued in other threads that it would be perfectly fine for a person to open fire in a situation like this. rightly or wrongly, Z threatened T, T attacked Z, and Z shot T. I don't think that the whole thing is clear cut.