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killing Trayvon - Page 198

post #2956 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hossoso View Post

Nahh, I'm not sure if he's guilty or not. I just want something bad to happen to him.

Clearly superior to thinking he's guilty and wanting something to happen to him.
post #2957 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post


And whatever happened to the idea that it's better to let ten guilty men go free than to punish one innocent?

White Hispanics are excluded from that.
post #2958 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Dachshund steaks.

You can make jokes like that, and I know they're jokes. Dahmer is still going to rape you in hell for talking about my dogs that way.
post #2959 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hossoso View Post

You can make jokes like that, and I know they're jokes. Dahmer is still going to rape you in hell for talking about my dogs that way.

Good thing I plan to go to Valhalla.
post #2960 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Good thing I plan to go to Valhalla.

Your plan will bleed out between canine teeth.
post #2961 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

White Hispanics are excluded from that.

plain.gif
post #2962 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

And whatever happened to the idea that it's better to let ten guilty men go free than to punish one innocent?

Judging from your past posts, you apply this selectively. I hope you don't mind if I quote it in any thread relating to Islam.

Not really relating to my statement above; If Zimmerman is found innocent it will be a serious setback for race relations in this country. It has become politicized and socialized whether we like it or not.
post #2963 of 6250
What do you consider a "setback" for race relations?

Oh, and you say I'm being selective--that's a hoot. It never ceases to amaze me how the same people who claim to be champions of the wrongly or unfairly accused can so easily redirect their passion toward lynching a guy like Zimmerman. It's like the ACLU calling for the supreme court to take away gun rights. Damned hypocrites.
post #2964 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hossoso View Post

Judging from your past posts, you apply this selectively. I hope you don't mind if I quote it in any thread relating to Islam.

Not really relating to my statement above; If Zimmerman is found innocent it will be a serious setback for race relations in this country. It has become politicized and socialized whether we like it or not.


I disagree. If a jury acquits Zimmerman and there is trouble, it will not set back race relations. It will merely expose how poor race relations currently are. Lynching a white hispanic to quell riots and mobs is not the solution.
post #2965 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

What do you consider a "setback" for race relations?

Oh, and you say I'm being selective--that's a hoot. It never ceases to amaze me how the same people who claim to be champions of the wrongly or unfairly accused can so easily redirect their passion toward lynching a guy like Zimmerman. It's like the ACLU calling for the supreme court to take away gun rights. Damned hypocrites.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

I disagree. If a jury acquits Zimmerman and there is trouble, it will not set back race relations. It will merely expose how poor race relations currently are. Lynching a white hispanic to quell riots and mobs is not the solution.

I quoted these posts with the intention of a long response but now I don't feel like it. I hope you all can respect that.
post #2966 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

So the burden is on Z, but what's the legal standard? What's the burden of persuasion? What's the standard of review on appeal?

I mean, is it a question of sufficiency, like summary judgment--can the State win just by showing there is a genuine dispute about whether Z acted in self-defense?

Or is it a mini-trial where the judge makes credibility determinations?

Don't know about appeal but it's by a preponderance of the evidence at the SYG hearing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Nickels View Post

Just heard some of the update on NPR.... will this really be easier? how can he support use of lethal force when not confronted with reasonable belief of imminent death or SBH? I'm no expert on FL. jurisdiction or SYG law... just curious.

Doesn't need to be reasonable belief of imminent death. Please review the statute I posted. It's not actually all that complicated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

He had a broken nose and some pretty good gashes on the back of his head. Do you think somebody has to relax his defenses and let his assailant get one good head slam in before he can use lethal force?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't think you absolutely have to accept Zimmerman's account, but where's the proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it isn't true?

Sadly, in FL, like in many jurisdictions, self-defense is an affirmative defense. Which means Zimmerman would have to prove his defense.

Fortunately for Z, the prosecutors in this case are a bunch of grandstanding whores and have not charged him with murder 3 or manslaughter. Which means they can't possibly prove he acted with a "depraved intent" and he'll be acquitted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hossoso View Post

Well, since our courts are entertaining Zimmerman's bullshit I would like to offer you a racist with delusions of grandeur and Munchausen syndrome to judge.

Thanks for your thoughtful contribution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hossoso View Post

I'm correct in assuming that you have already decided that Zimmerman is innocent of a crime?

This is still America, sir. Z is innocent unless he is proven guilty.
post #2967 of 6250
I guess you have a better word for not caring whether he's guilty as long as something bad happens to him?
post #2968 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

I guess you have a better word for not caring whether he's guilty as long as something bad happens to him?

Enlightened liberal.
post #2969 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

I guess you have a better word for not caring whether he's guilty as long as something bad happens to him?

Most people use 'asshole'...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Enlightened liberal.

...but I like the way Pio classes it up.
post #2970 of 6250
Quote:
Sadly, in FL, like in many jurisdictions, self-defense is an affirmative defense. Which means Zimmerman would have to prove his defense.

I don't think I agree with that. In practice self-defense is really only a quasi or nominal affirmative defense in that a defendant only has to raise it and then the burden shifts to the prosecution to disprove it. Certainly that's how it is in my state and IIRC pretty much every other one I'm familiar with. Are you sure Florida treats it as a full fledged affirmative defense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

Don't know about appeal but it's by a preponderance of the evidence at the SYG hearing.

That's just plain weird. If the burden is on the state to disprove self-defense, beyond a reasonable doubt, like I think it is, then that's a harder burden on defendant -- but it sure as hell seems like a chance you'd want to take. If the judge really is allowed to weigh evidence and determine credibility, then all he has to do is decide Zimmerman's account better than the proof against him, and he'd have to let him off. Considering the only real proof the State has is suspect (the combination of the belated account of the not-credible girlfriend and the mother's not-credible claim that it's Martin, rather than Zimmerman, screaming for help on the tapes). Given that Martin obviously wasn't running away and didn't have a scratch on him other than a bullet hole and bruised knuckles, Z should get off. I feel like maybe we're missing something here.
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