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killing Trayvon - Page 197

post #2941 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

What exactly is this stand your ground hearing, anyway? Like a probable cause hearing? A quasi summary judgment?

Closer to this. The judge would have heard testimony and evidence as to whether or not Zimmerman qualified for immunity under the law. The burden is on Zimmerman, not the state.


Quote:
776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—

(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.


Zimmerman can still have a hearing on this matter after the trial (assuming he's found not guilty) in order to protect himself from a civil lawsuit from Trayvon's family.
post #2942 of 6250
So the burden is on Z, but what's the legal standard? What's the burden of persuasion? What's the standard of review on appeal?

I mean, is it a question of sufficiency, like summary judgment--can the State win just by showing there is a genuine dispute about whether Z acted in self-defense?

Or is it a mini-trial where the judge makes credibility determinations?
post #2943 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvey_birdman View Post

I don't blame them. Self-defense before a Jury is easier than a SYG case before a Judge. Especially one as political as this where I doubt the Judge would dismiss the case. And this way the Prosecution doesn't know what their case will look like.

Just heard some of the update on NPR.... will this really be easier? how can he support use of lethal force when not confronted with reasonable belief of imminent death or SBH? I'm no expert on FL. jurisdiction or SYG law... just curious.
post #2944 of 6250
Is there a more exemplary case of threatening imminent, serious bodily injury than trying to bang someone's head on concrete?
post #2945 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Is there a more exemplary case of threatening imminent, serious bodily injury than trying to bang someone's head on concrete?

well sure... if true.... but I didn't think there was anything to support that except Z's claim. the injury (scrape?) to his head certainly didn't jive with that. I don't have a dog in this fight... just interested in the legal debate. thanks!
post #2946 of 6250
He had a broken nose and some pretty good gashes on the back of his head. Do you think somebody has to relax his defenses and let his assailant get one good head slam in before he can use lethal force?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't think you absolutely have to accept Zimmerman's account, but where's the proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it isn't true?
post #2947 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

He had a broken nose and some pretty good gashes on the back of his head. Do you think somebody has to relax his defenses and let his assailant get one good head slam in before he can use lethal force?

I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't think you absolutely have to accept Zimmerman's account, but where's the proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it isn't true?

Well, since our courts are entertaining Zimmerman's bullshit I would like to offer you a racist with delusions of grandeur and Munchausen syndrome to judge.
post #2948 of 6250
Well there's a pathetic appeal to authority if I've ever heard one. They say you can indict an a ham sandwich, but it doesn't mean you should. Then again, the prosecutors didn't even want to risk taking poor Zimmerman's case to a grand jury.

Unfortunately a lot of people are more interested in politics than the facts of individual cases. And that's too bad.
post #2949 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Well there's a pathetic appeal to authority if I've ever heard one. They say you can indict an a ham sandwich, but it doesn't mean you should. Then again, the prosecutors didn't even want to risk taking poor Zimmerman's case to a grand jury.

Unfortunately a lot of people are more interested in politics than the facts of individual cases. And that's too bad.

I'm correct in assuming that you have already decided that Zimmerman is innocent of a crime?
post #2950 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hossoso View Post

I'm correct in assuming that you have already decided that Zimmerman is innocent of a crime?

I think the more correct summation is that you have already decided what he's guilty of.
post #2951 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I think the more correct summation is that you have already decided what he's guilty of.

Nahh, I'm not sure if he's guilty or not. I just want something bad to happen to him.
post #2952 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hossoso View Post

Nahh, I'm not sure if he's guilty or not. I just want something bad to happen to him.

That's how I feel about you.
post #2953 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

That's how I feel about you.

That was an insensitive and immature thing to say. I am not going to lower myself to your level but I hope you fucking choke on peacock jizz or spaniel testicles or whatever the fuck it is you eat to feel like a man.
post #2954 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hossoso View Post

That was an insensitive and immature thing to say. I am not going to lower myself to your level but I hope you fucking choke on peacock jizz or spaniel testicles or whatever the fuck it is you eat to feel like a man.

Dachshund steaks.
post #2955 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hossoso View Post

I'm correct in assuming that you have already decided that Zimmerman is innocent of a crime?

It sure looks like it.

But what really matters is whether the prosecutors can prove he's not, beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't think they can. That's not to say I don't think Zimmerman can't be convicted or that the case against him is legally insufficient to put a jury (it probably isn't), but it would be pretty extraordinary for a fair jury to find him guilty of murder or even manslaughter. But that's not what I'm worried about--the case has been so heavily politicized and there's so much misinformation out there that he's pretty much assured not to get a fair trial. The prosecution knows this--in fact they're counting on it. That's pretty shameful.

And whatever happened to the idea that it's better to let ten guilty men go free than to punish one innocent?
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