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killing Trayvon - Page 184

post #2746 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by globetrotter View Post

Greg as anti civilian gun use as I am, with an armed robbery you never know what's going to happen and the old man saw an opportunity to successfully intervien and did so.

It was interesting to note how he completely owned the situation even though it looks like he couldn't shoot his way out of a wet paper bag.
post #2747 of 6250
That old broad almost got got.
post #2748 of 6250
FWIW, what he did goes 100% against my (albeit limited) training. My thought is that the hoodies caused him to fire.
post #2749 of 6250
Are you people out of your fucking mind?

It's ARMED ROBBERY. One guy pointing a gun at people, another bouncing around smashing shit with a baseball bat.

And you're faulting the old guy for creating a dangerous situation? Are you serious? Did you even watch the clip and read the article?

He fired four shots and scored three hits. At the age of 71. With a short-barreled pistol, in a life-or-death situation.

He didn't fire with anyone in his line of sight.

He waited until he was in close range.

He was actually aiming the gun, not shooting from the hip like a jackass.

Good for him.
post #2750 of 6250
Fuck yeah FL, this old man is what makes America great smile.gif
post #2751 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

FWIW, what he did goes 100% against my (albeit limited) training. My thought is that the hoodies caused him to fire.

To assess the situation properly, I'm going to need to know what the robbers looked like when they were twelve.
post #2752 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLMountainMan View Post

Are you people out of your fucking mind?
It's ARMED ROBBERY. One guy pointing a gun at people, another bouncing around smashing shit with a baseball bat.
And you're faulting the old guy for creating a dangerous situation? Are you serious? Did you even watch the clip and read the article?
He fired four shots and scored three hits. At the age of 71. With a short-barreled pistol, in a life-or-death situation.
He didn't fire with anyone in his line of sight.
He waited until he was in close range.
He was actually aiming the gun, not shooting from the hip like a jackass.
Good for him.

So are you saying it isn't possible to make that dangerous situation worse?

I wonder what the odds of someone being shot are during that situation. I also wonder what the how much the odds increase or decrease if another dude starts to shoot (instigators of the crime not included).
post #2753 of 6250
Good for the ol' guy. Given the high stress situation he responded well. As FLM pointed out he waited for an opportune time, was on target and was aware of what was beyond his target. Too bad he wasn't a bit more proficient and had a larger caliber handgun....
post #2754 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhowie View Post

So are you saying it isn't possible to make that dangerous situation worse?
I wonder what the odds of someone being shot are during that situation. I also wonder what the how much the odds increase or decrease if another dude starts to shoot (instigators of the crime not included).

Are you kidding me? One guy holds a gun on people while the other is swinging a bat? Yeah the situation could have been worse. They both could have had guns and just started shooting everyone in sight. In regards to whether or not an innocent bystander gets hit is not dependent on just number of shooters. What determines that more than anything else is proficiency and training.
post #2755 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhowie View Post

So are you saying it isn't possible to make that dangerous situation worse?
I wonder what the odds of someone being shot are during that situation. I also wonder what the how much the odds increase or decrease if another dude starts to shoot (instigators of the crime not included).

What would have happened if that old guy had done nothing? What if the robbers after getting the loot shot the employee or others?
post #2756 of 6250
Old man has some balls of steel

While I agree with the action he took, I also acknowledge that the situation could have turned into a bloodbath (which can be said for an infinite amount of alternate outcomes - such as the robbers panicking and shooting people, the old man missing and hitting a customer, etc, etc...)

It's hard to pass judgement from where we sit.
post #2757 of 6250
12,632 firearm related homicides in 2007. (wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States)

401,000 armed robberies in 2004. (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/robbery.html)

There is no way in hell that 12,000 deaths are during armed robberies. I would bet that at most 1% of all armed robberies end in a death. I would bet it is way lower than that.
Quote:
Police reports relative to the use of firearms during armed robberies indicate that of a total of the 652 victims who were killed, 348 (68.1%) were the armed robbers, 134 (26.2%) were bystanders, and 29 (5.7%) were policemen.

Really not comparable, but I'll post this link. It looks at Nigeria. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16018510. I spent 10 minutes googling this APE info.
post #2758 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

What would have happened if that old guy had done nothing? What if the robbers after getting the loot shot the employee or others?

No one knows what would have happened if the old guy did nothing.
post #2759 of 6250
Hey, if the old man wouldn't have done anything, and the robbers shot some customer, who would have then given birth to the next Hitler, what then?

263
post #2760 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhowie View Post

No one knows what would have happened if the old guy did nothing.

+1. It's like when the music industry used to calculate losses for use in lawsuits against Napster the idea that every song downloaded was an album not bought. "We lost eleventy-hundred quintillion dollars last year!"

We like our guns and we like CCWs to be gotten relatively easily and cheaply, so the "what ifs" always tend to err on the side of the vigilante. The fact that, probably, the stats would say that it would be safer in an armed robbery to do nothing means relatively little. Stats and reality say all sorts of things that go against what makes us feel better; more prisons and greater crime, more traffic lights and more accidents, etc.

I've got no issue with CCW or even having lots of guns (on principle)... my father owns more guns than most people do pairs of socks... but I also would like to see better and more training for those wanting them. One poorly trained idiot who shoots a pedestrian accidentally shouldn't see folk like my dad or friends growing up in KY lose their guns or permits (after all, they are better trained with them and more proficient in their use than most law enforcement, I'd wager), but I'd definitely feel safer knowing that if I AM in an internet cafe and a man has a CCW, he's actually not going to be more dangerous than the armed robbers.
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