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killing Trayvon - Page 144

post #2146 of 6250
On the one hand, poor sweet Trayvon was just minding his own business carrying skittles to his little brother. On the other, he's supposed to have been so obviously dangerous that Zimmerman putting himself in Martin's striking range while armed was tantamount to murder.

Pure nonsense. I still can't believe you accused me of being blinded by prejudice about this case.
post #2147 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

On the one hand, poor sweet Trayvon was just minding his own business carrying skittles to his little brother. On the other, he's supposed to have been so obviously dangerous that Zimmerman putting himself in Martin's striking range while armed was tantamount to murder.
Pure nonsense. I still can't believe you accused me of being blinded by prejudice about this case.

Proof that he wasn't?
post #2148 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by eg1 View Post

Regarding gun ownership, I can see long guns, particularly in rural areas. Handguns are more difficult for me to rationalize.
A question for Americans -- does everybody agree that they do not belong in schools?


No (speaking generally, not nec. from my point of view).
post #2149 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

I think the salient point is what constitutes "initiating contact." If Zimmerman merely asked Martin what he was doing in the gated community, and Martin took umbrage at being accosted and began beating the daylights out of Zimmerman (and it does seem pretty clear that Martin was beating Zimmerman's head on the pavement when he was shot), then Zimmerman should walk. He may have been an officious asshole. I have met many such, but beating them to death (or nearly so) is not usually an appropriate response. On the other hand, if Zimmerman actually initiated physical contact/combat with Martin, got more than he bargained for and killed Martin, then he should be convicted.
If there are witnesses that Zimmerman started the fight, then he should go down. If there are no definite witnesses, then probably Zimmerman should walk on the principle of reasonable doubt.
Admittedly, I am not an attorney, but I have devoted more thought and study to the matter of armed personal defense than most folks, I do believe.

Pretty much agree 100%
post #2150 of 6250
From the Rueters article:

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."



Interesting, relevant, and sure top be ignored or discounted totally.
post #2151 of 6250
Couldn't make this up if I'd tried. Well, actually, I could have, which is how I found it, but it's apparently real and sincere. No idea who this Jonah Martenga guy is--should I?
Quote:
George Zimmerman killed poor Trayvon Martin
With a gun that he carried as a neighborhood watchman
In a gated community in Sanford, Florida
And the cops was called in to see what had happened
And they rode him in custody down to the station
And asked him some questions and wrote down the answers

But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,
Take your hands away from your face. Now ain't the time for your tears.

George Zimmerman, who at twenty-eight years
Has a dad who's a judge who keeps speaking for him
And over the years, he's tried to protect him
With his high court relations in the politics of Florida,
Like when his son fought drunk with policemen
Or when he was noticed for concerns about safety
Ignored that and told stories, and his tongue it was snarling,
About what Trayvon did, and why he deserved it
But you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,
Take your hands away from your face. Now ain't the time for your tears.

Trayvon Martin was a young man in high school
On his way from the store with a drink and some Skittles
Like so many kids, sure, he'd been in some trouble
And like so many kids, he liked to wear hoodies
And watch games with his family and learn how to grow up
In a country that fears him and still tries to enslave him
By painting a picture of an angry young black man
And then shot in the chest by a gun at point-blank range
That echoed through the streets of the small, quiet neighborhood
Doomed and determined to destroy all the gentle
And he never did anything to George Zimmerman
And you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,
Take your hands away from your face. Now ain't the time for your tears.

On the night of the shooting, the cops questioned Zimmerman
To show that all's equal and that the police are on the level
And that the strings in the books ain't pulled and persuaded
And that even the light-skinned get properly handled
Once that the cops have chased after and caught 'em
And that the ladder of law has no top and no bottom,
Stared at the person who killed for no reason
Who just happened to be feelin' that way without warnin'
And the cops in their uniforms, most deep and distinguished,
After asking their questions most seriously decided
To let Zimmerman free on his weird, flimsy story
With no alcohol tests or arrests or, well, anything
Just let him walk free so he could keep self-defending
While poor Trayvon Martin was cold, dead and stiffening
Oh, so you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fears,
Bury your face deep in your hands, for now's the time for your tears.

http://jonahmatranga.bandcamp.com/track/the-lonesome-death-of-trayvon-martin
post #2152 of 6250
^For those of you too young to remember such matters, the above verses were a takeoff on a Bob Dylan song about Hattie Carroll, an African-American maid who was killed when a wealthy young white man threw a cane at her. He got six months for it.
post #2153 of 6250
She died from a stroke after he yelled at her and hit her with a plastic toy cane, but, yeah.
post #2154 of 6250
I enjoyed how Z's brush with the law is bad but T's is so easily dismissed. That author should win an award for his efforts.
post #2155 of 6250
T was just responding as anyone would to society's efforts to enslave him.
post #2156 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

She died from a stroke after he yelled at her and hit her with a plastic toy cane, but, yeah.

I always wondered how throwing a cane at somebody could prove fatal, thought maybe it had a heavy metal head or something. I can recall back in prep school Charles Well (who later wrote The Graduate) threw an axe helve at me, half playfully. I certainly didn't think his intent was homicidal. I rather wonder if with better counsel Zantzinger could have beaten the rap altogether.
post #2157 of 6250
Sword cane biggrin.gif
post #2158 of 6250
Whats a full grown man even doing with a toy cane? Also, exactly what is a toy cane? It seems like it would be one slight, almost imperceptible step above a toy stick. I mean why bother making one? You might as well just make a real cane and then play with it.
post #2159 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

I always wondered how throwing a cane at somebody could prove fatal, thought maybe it had a heavy metal head or something. I can recall back in prep school Charles Well (who later wrote The Graduate) threw an axe helve at me, half playfully. I certainly didn't think his intent was homicidal. I rather wonder if with better counsel Zantzinger could have beaten the rap altogether.

Ginger kid I went to school with stabbed me in the finger with a chisel during woodworking class. It went right down to the bone and I still have the scar. All I did was call him a tampon headed retard because he couldn’t get his dovetails to fit.
post #2160 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLibourel View Post

I always wondered how throwing a cane at somebody could prove fatal, thought maybe it had a heavy metal head or something. I can recall back in prep school Charles Well (who later wrote The Graduate) threw an axe helve at me, half playfully. I certainly didn't think his intent was homicidal. I rather wonder if with better counsel Zantzinger could have beaten the rap altogether.

Ginger kid I went to school with stabbed me in the finger with a chisel during woodworking class. It went right down to the bone and I still have the scar. All I did was call him a tampon headed retard because he couldn’t get his dovetails to fit.

He clearly had that coming to him.
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