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killing Trayvon - Page 138

post #2056 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats View Post

I agree, taking a beating like that makes me dream of being that guy who chased off the neighborhood louts. And when just about to take that whooping, I pull my S & W revolver out of my pants and back them all down like the little pants-pissers they are. But then I wake up and realize they could own a gun too ("free country") and a dispute about a basketball game becomes a life altering nightmare for me, even if I do sort of prevail in that mythical showdown. That's what's wrong with all this shit. People are letting the crap they read in comic books or see in movies influence the real life decisions they make and all of us suffer from the consequences.
As for your statements about Z. Glad to hear it and sorry to say I sometimes have other things to do besides figure out where Piobaire stands on something. shog[1].gif


Actually, at that point it would have been a dispute between the guy on the porch and the twenty thugs over whether he would allow them to beat him into a coma and possibly to death and it DID become a life altering experience for the guy WITHOUT a gun who was beaten nearly to death.

Again, the consequences were suffered by someone because he didnt have a gun. If only he had read more comic books!
post #2057 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post

...Again, the consequences were suffered by someone because he didnt have a gun. If only he had read more comic books!

Uh huh; you win too! Go around and practice muttering "just like a wop, brings a knife to a gunfight" until your wife leaves you.
Wonder what the odds are that one or more of the 20 thugs would produce a gun moments after you say that to them, though? But keep running these adolescent scenarios through your head if it makes you feel good about wasting all that cash on a gun. smile.gif
post #2058 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats View Post

Uh huh; you win too! Go around and practice muttering "just like a wop, brings a knife to a gunfight" until your wife leaves you.
Wonder what the odds are that one or more of the 20 thugs would produce a gun moments after you say that to them, though? But keep running these adolescent scenarios through your head if it makes you feel good about wasting all that cash on a gun. smile.gif

Spats, the argument you are trying to make would be a lot more effective if you were not stubbornly trying to make it against the backdrop of a story that is powerful anecdotal evidence to the contrary.
post #2059 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post

Spats, the argument you are trying to make would be a lot more effective if you were not stubbornly trying to make it against the backdrop of a story that is powerful anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

Yup, you're right, it is hopeless (no snark). In fact, I'm convinced anecdotal "evidence" drives bad gun policy and real gun sales. I've been around awhile and I'm here to tell you that every true believer has a story like this running like a film loop inside his head. Give him half a chance and he'll fill your noggin with them, too.

PS, I'm not downplaying the apparent viciousness of the crime that Fox News found for us. I'm saying it is beside the point. And that, because there was no gun present an instant death was avoided, at least. But yes, bad beatings are bad.
post #2060 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats View Post

Yup, you're right, it is hopeless (no snark). In fact, I'm convinced anecdotal "evidence" drives bad gun policy and real gun sales. I've been around awhile and I'm here to tell you that every true believer has a story like this running like a film loop inside his head. Give him half a chance and he'll fill your noggin with them, too.
PS, I'm not downplaying the apparent viciousness of the crime that Fox News found for us. I'm saying it is beside the point. And that, because there was no gun present an instant death was avoided, at least. But yes, bad beatings are bad.

Yeah, that guy ought to thank his lucky stars he was utterly defenseless when 20 guys showed up in his front yard to mercilessly beat him into a coma.

By the way, I didnt think you were "downplaying" the viciousness of the crime until you used the sentence " PS, I'm not downplaying the apparent viciousness of the crime that Fox News found for us." describing the beating nearly to death of an innocent man by a mob as APPARENTLY vicious and that we would not even be aware of it if it werent for that meddling Fox News.
post #2061 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post

Yeah, that guy ought to thank his lucky stars he was utterly defenseless when 20 guys showed up in his front yard to mercilessly beat him into a coma.
By the way, I didnt think you were "downplaying" the viciousness of the crime until you used the sentence " PS, I'm not downplaying the apparent viciousness of the crime that Fox News found for us." describing the beating nearly to death of an innocent man by a mob as APPARENTLY vicious and that we would not even be aware of it if it werent for that meddling Fox News.

You win. I conceded that a horrendous beating was NOT avoided. I still think guns are shitty defense in this and most other garden variety crimes, but I realize it is virtually impossible to change most people's minds on this, especially when the tides of popular culture, law, and the narrative as told by the media are aligned to prevent that from happening. You can think what you want. But damned if anyone can convince me that Fox is not part of that propaganda effort.
post #2062 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats View Post

You win. I conceded that a horrendous beating was NOT avoided. I still think guns are shitty defense in this and most other garden variety crimes, but I realize it is virtually impossible to change most people's minds on this, especially when the tides of popular culture, law, and the narrative as told by the media are aligned to prevent that from happening. You can think what you want. But damned if anyone can convince me that Fox is not part of that propaganda effort.

It would be the strange mind that could be convinced of your position via this story, that is for sure. As for your suspicion that Fox News is actively involved in making sure people want to carry guns, Im not sure what to say to you. I guess its one of those "film loops" every true believer has running around his head you mentioned in an earlier post.
post #2063 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post

It would be the strange mind that could be convinced of your position via this story, that is for sure. As for your suspicion that Fox News is actively involved in making sure people want to carry guns, Im not sure what to say to you. I guess its one of those "film loops" every true believer has running around his head you mentioned in an earlier post.

That's all fine, whatever. But all year long, year after year, bad shit happens involving guns. Didn't used to be nearly so common years ago, nor were rapid fire, compact and lightweight, high capacity guns common. The constitution was the same and guns were readily available but a hell of a lot of people didn't own them and almost no one actually carried one as a matter of course. So you tell me, what's the benefit here? Part of wanting to carry a gun is buying into the narrative that life-threatening violence from strangers is imminent. Ever wonder what feeds that belief?
post #2064 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats View Post

That's all fine, whatever. But all year long, year after year, bad shit happens involving guns. Didn't used to be nearly so common years ago, nor were rapid fire, compact and lightweight, high capacity guns common. The constitution was the same and guns were readily available but a hell of a lot of people didn't own them and almost no one actually carried one as a matter of course. So you tell me, what's the benefit here? Part of wanting to carry a gun is buying into the narrative that life-threatening violence from strangers is imminent. Ever wonder what feeds that belief?

I really dont want to get into this argument. Im not a gun nut and I dont have all the gun statistics at my disposal to back up or refute your contentions. I do know that I live in a place that has very high levels of gun ownership where people routinely carry. (Pahrump, Nevada) I dont think a week goes by where I dont see somebody with a gun. Seriously. With the exception of Yokosuka Japan I have never lived in a safer place. There is no place in Pahrump at any time of day I feel at all concerned for my safety. There is no sense of life threatening violence from strangers being imminent here but we have to be one of the most armed counties in the country. In contrast, there are places in New york or D.C. that have extremely restrictive gun laws that I wouldnt walk through on a bet - unless it was a large bet and I was armed.

Its culture. If you live in a place where people are violent and criminal you can expect violence and criminality and you can expect more people will hold the belief that life-threatening violence from strangers is imminent . If you live in a place where people are decent and polite to each other you are going to get a lot less violence and therefore people wont expect much violence. It has nothing to do with lawful gun ownership.
post #2065 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats View Post

I agree, taking a beating like that makes me dream of being that guy who chased off the neighborhood louts. And when just about to take that whooping, I pull my S & W revolver out of my pants and back them all down like the little pants-pissers they are. But then I wake up and realize they could own a gun too ("free country") and a dispute about a basketball game becomes a life altering nightmare for me, even if I do sort of prevail in that mythical showdown. That's what's wrong with all this shit. People are letting the crap they read in comic books or see in movies influence the real life decisions they make and all of us suffer from the consequences.
As for your statements about Z. Glad to hear it and sorry to say I sometimes have other things to do besides figure out where Piobaire stands on something. shog[1].gif


The dispute became a life altering nightmare as soon as this man was beaten nearly to death by a group of thugs.

A country in which the average citizen would rather be beaten to a bloody pulp, within inches of dying, rather than use a firearm to defend themselves - a true far left paradise. Had your comments been aimed at a situation involving a fist fight, you might be making a point worth arguing about. However, baseball bats and other deadly weapons were introduced in a many versus 1 scenario, the many being the ones with the bats, and yet you're still saying this crap. Truly amazing.
post #2066 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post

Yeah, that guy ought to thank his lucky stars he was utterly defenseless when 20 guys showed up in his front yard to mercilessly beat him into a coma.
By the way, I didnt think you were "downplaying" the viciousness of the crime until you used the sentence " PS, I'm not downplaying the apparent viciousness of the crime that Fox News found for us." describing the beating nearly to death of an innocent man by a mob as APPARENTLY vicious and that we would not even be aware of it if it werent for that meddling Fox News.

You win. I conceded that a horrendous beating was NOT avoided. I still think guns are shitty defense in this and most other garden variety crimes, but I realize it is virtually impossible to change most people's minds on this, especially when the tides of popular culture, law, and the narrative as told by the media are aligned to prevent that from happening. You can think what you want. But damned if anyone can convince me that Fox is not part of that propaganda effort.

Just FYI, that second quote about this incident I posted was from that bastion of the VRWC, HuffPo.
post #2067 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post

It would be the strange mind that could be convinced of your position via this story, that is for sure. As for your suspicion that Fox News is actively involved in making sure people want to carry guns, Im not sure what to say to you. I guess its one of those "film loops" every true believer has running around his head you mentioned in an earlier post.

That's all fine, whatever. But all year long, year after year, bad shit happens involving guns. Didn't used to be nearly so common years ago, nor were rapid fire, compact and lightweight, high capacity guns common. The constitution was the same and guns were readily available but a hell of a lot of people didn't own them and almost no one actually carried one as a matter of course. So you tell me, what's the benefit here? Part of wanting to carry a gun is buying into the narrative that life-threatening violence from strangers is imminent. Ever wonder what feeds that belief?

You did notice this happened at the guy's house? Given that fact, what does "carrying" a gun have to do with this situation. He was at home; no need to carry. So am I to assume you don't think folks should be allowed to own a gun on their own property?
post #2068 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by suited View Post

The dispute became a life altering nightmare as soon as this man was beaten nearly to death by a group of thugs.
A country in which the average citizen would rather be beaten to a bloody pulp, within inches of dying, rather than use a firearm to defend themselves - a true far left paradise. Had your comments been aimed at a situation involving a fist fight, you might be making a point worth arguing about. However, baseball bats and other deadly weapons were introduced in a many versus 1 scenario, the many being the ones with the bats, and yet you're still saying this crap. Truly amazing.

Amazing indeed. The fact is he didn't have a big gun. He got beat half to death. Of course gun nuts are going to say, "if he'd had a big ol' gun, he would be fine today." I like that so much, I'm going to adopt it as my personal credo: "everything will go down my way when I point my big ol' gun at you." If I was twelve, I could believe it would be the way to go. I'd always come out on top. And if anyone else pulls a gun, I'd just shoot it out of their hand because that's what kind of guy I am.
As for Pahrump, Nv. vs. NYC; that's ridiculous. Why not compare NYC to Dallas, Houston or New Orleans? I don't know where to compare Pahrump to, maybe some other small town in the middle of nowhere where everyone has a similar ethnic and socio-economic background? My guess is that the guns wouldn't make much of a difference in that latter comparison. The Nevadans do it as part of their schtick, I'll wager.

@ Piob: OK, at home: guns pretty useless most of the time there as well. Call and tell me how it goes down next time 20 dudes who want your ass are out in the street in front of your house. Give me lots of details about what a special gun yours is and how not one of them had even a peashooter. I'm thinking if this nightmare were ever to arise, you'll want a direct line to the cop shop or better yet, be in your car across town. Fuck the constitutional issue.
post #2069 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spats View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcaimen View Post

Yeah, that guy ought to thank his lucky stars he was utterly defenseless when 20 guys showed up in his front yard to mercilessly beat him into a coma.
By the way, I didnt think you were "downplaying" the viciousness of the crime until you used the sentence " PS, I'm not downplaying the apparent viciousness of the crime that Fox News found for us." describing the beating nearly to death of an innocent man by a mob as APPARENTLY vicious and that we would not even be aware of it if it werent for that meddling Fox News.

You win. I conceded that a horrendous beating was NOT avoided. I still think guns are shitty defense in this and most other garden variety crimes, but I realize it is virtually impossible to change most people's minds on this, especially when the tides of popular culture, law, and the narrative as told by the media are aligned to prevent that from happening. You can think what you want. But damned if anyone can convince me that Fox is not part of that propaganda effort.

Just FYI, that second quote about this incident I posted was from that bastion of the VRWC, HuffPo.

Huffpo? They are funded by those crazy Koch brothers right?

biggrin.gif
post #2070 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artisan Fan View Post

Huffpo? They are funded by those crazy Koch brothers right?
biggrin.gif

Dummy. Koch bros. fund The Metropolitan Opera. smile.gif
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