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killing Trayvon - Page 131

post #1951 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeightyseven View Post

well i guess it depends on perspective, but would you not address someone who is clearly making a point to follow you? i dont necessarily define that as being aggressive. it can be done aggressively, but it isnt inherently aggressive.

Sorry, starting the confrontation is inherently aggressive IMO. And no, I would not necessarily address them.

so you would allow someone to follow you home? shit, for all those "badass" stories you seem to pull out, playing the role of a pussy is just odd. the least you could do is answer honestly and realistically
post #1952 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ter1413 View Post

Wrong....
Listen...everyone is saying that FL's BS stand your ground law applies to Zimmerman..... but noone is saying that it also applies to Trayvon! If I was walking down my street and someone was following me(with a concealed gun and on the phone), I would turn around and ask him.."Do we have a fucking problem??" Zimmerman was not ATTACKED! A young man being followed and possibly(1 theory) turned around and said "what's your fucking problem" and Zimmerman possibly(1 theroy) said don't move(blah blah blah) and they started fighting-aka Trayvon fighting for his life...aka stand your ground! AND, if Zimmerman pulled out his gun, Trayvon SHOULD have tried to beat his ass! That is NOT being attacked. That is stand your ground on Trayvon's part!!

Any defense Martin would have is not relevant because Martin isn't on trial.
post #1953 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I did not say "Zimmerman was not." Stop attributing things to me that I did not say. What I said was starting a confrontation is inherently aggressive. That's my opinion and you cannot change it. I do not see how you can think that turning around and confronting someone is not aggressive.

Point taken re what you posted...
But FL has a stand your ground law...So him turning around(if that is what happened) is agressive or within his rights???

And I can't see how PEOPLE can't think that following someone with a loaded gun when the police dispatch tells you that u don't have to follow him isn't agressive...
post #1954 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by munchausen View Post

Any defense Martin would have is not relevant because Martin isn't on trial.

u are right..he is dead!
post #1955 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeightyseven View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeightyseven View Post

well i guess it depends on perspective, but would you not address someone who is clearly making a point to follow you? i dont necessarily define that as being aggressive. it can be done aggressively, but it isnt inherently aggressive.

Sorry, starting the confrontation is inherently aggressive IMO. And no, I would not necessarily address them.

so you would allow someone to follow you home? shit, for all those "badass" stories you seem to pull out, playing the role of a pussy is just odd. the least you could do is answer honestly and realistically

I did not say that. WTF is up with people this morning?

Listen, confronting someone that is following you is understandable. However, just because it's understandable, doesn't mean it isn't inherently aggressive. It is and that's why you do it. You want a counterdisplay of your aggression to back the person(s) off. So stop acting like it's not inherently aggressive as it is.

Also, not confronting someone in this type of situation is not necessarily being "a pussy." There could be many reasons I would not turn around and confront people. Off the top of my head the number one reason would be because I'm strapped and I feel it is my duty to retreat at that point.
post #1956 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ter1413 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I did not say "Zimmerman was not." Stop attributing things to me that I did not say. What I said was starting a confrontation is inherently aggressive. That's my opinion and you cannot change it. I do not see how you can think that turning around and confronting someone is not aggressive.

Point taken re what you posted...
But FL has a stand your ground law...So him turning around(if that is what happened) is agressive or within his rights???

And I can't see how PEOPLE can't think that following someone with a loaded gun when the police dispatch tells you that u don't have to follow him isn't agressive...

I never said that wasn't aggressive. In fact, I've only said at least two dozen times that being armed placed the onus on Z to never have started following M. Even though that's what I believe I also will not let people mischaracterize and basically invent shit about what little we know for sure did happen.
post #1957 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ter1413 View Post

u are right..h is dead!

Yeah that's probably why.
post #1958 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I did not say that. WTF is up with people this morning?
Listen, confronting someone that is following you is understandable. However, just because it's understandable, doesn't mean it isn't inherently aggressive. It is and that's why you do it. You want a counterdisplay of your aggression to back the person(s) off. So stop acting like it's not inherently aggressive as it is.
Also, not confronting someone in this type of situation is not necessarily being "a pussy." There could be many reasons I would not turn around and confront people. Off the top of my head the number one reason would be because I'm strapped and I feel it is my duty to retreat at that point.

Ok. So you would NOT confront if you were strapped and didn't want any shit to go down.
What if you were not and just walking home? T confronted him(a/p Z.) Let's not classify(I didn't say you, so relax and have your morning coffee) a confrontation as a beatdown. It could have been as simple as, "why are you following me?" And then Z could have been the real aggressor with his followup and GUN.
post #1959 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post


I did not say that. WTF is up with people this morning?

Listen, confronting someone that is following you is understandable. However, just because it's understandable, doesn't mean it isn't inherently aggressive. It is and that's why you do it. You want a counterdisplay of your aggression to back the person(s) off. So stop acting like it's not inherently aggressive as it is.

Also, not confronting someone in this type of situation is not necessarily being "a pussy." There could be many reasons I would not turn around and confront people. Off the top of my head the number one reason would be because I'm strapped and I feel it is my duty to retreat at that point.

but it really isn't inherently aggressive because you are merely addressing someone. The aggressive aspect is what you do with it or how you approach it. For instance, if you ask them why they are following you and inquire if there is a problem, that is not aggressive. Conversely, if you approach them angrily and assert for them to stop following you, or you ask in a demeaning and insulting manner, that is aggressive.


Question: is someone asking another person to speak quieter in a library aggressive? Or to be quiet in a movie theatre?


also, if you would not allow them to follow you home, yet you would not bother to address them, what would you do? walk around in circle until they stopped? alter your routine or actions based on their insistence on following you, rather than inquiring as to the provenance of their actions?
post #1960 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeightyseven View Post

but it really isn't inherently aggressive because you are merely addressing someone. The aggressive aspect is what you do with it or how you approach it. For instance, if you ask them why they are following you and inquire if there is a problem, that is not aggressive. Conversely, if you approach them angrily and assert for them to stop following you, or you ask in a demeaning and insulting manner, that is aggressive.
Question: is someone asking another person to speak quieter in a library aggressive? Or to be quiet in a movie theatre?

+1
post #1961 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ter1413 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I did not say that. WTF is up with people this morning?
Listen, confronting someone that is following you is understandable. However, just because it's understandable, doesn't mean it isn't inherently aggressive. It is and that's why you do it. You want a counterdisplay of your aggression to back the person(s) off. So stop acting like it's not inherently aggressive as it is.
Also, not confronting someone in this type of situation is not necessarily being "a pussy." There could be many reasons I would not turn around and confront people. Off the top of my head the number one reason would be because I'm strapped and I feel it is my duty to retreat at that point.

Ok. So you would NOT confront if you were strapped and didn't want any shit to go down.
What if you were not and just walking home? T confronted him(a/p Z.) Let's not classify(I didn't say you, so relax and have your morning coffee) a confrontation as a beatdown. It could have been as simple as, "why are you following me?" And then Z could have been the real aggressor with his followup and GUN.

Sorry, done arguing counterfactuals.
post #1962 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeightyseven View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post


I did not say that. WTF is up with people this morning?

Listen, confronting someone that is following you is understandable. However, just because it's understandable, doesn't mean it isn't inherently aggressive. It is and that's why you do it. You want a counterdisplay of your aggression to back the person(s) off. So stop acting like it's not inherently aggressive as it is.

Also, not confronting someone in this type of situation is not necessarily being "a pussy." There could be many reasons I would not turn around and confront people. Off the top of my head the number one reason would be because I'm strapped and I feel it is my duty to retreat at that point.

but it really isn't inherently aggressive because you are merely addressing someone. The aggressive aspect is what you do with it or how you approach it. For instance, if you ask them why they are following you and inquire if there is a problem, that is not aggressive. Conversely, if you approach them angrily and assert for them to stop following you, or you ask in a demeaning and insulting manner, that is aggressive.


Question: is someone asking another person to speak quieter in a library aggressive? Or to be quiet in a movie theatre?


also, if you would not allow them to follow you home, yet you would not bother to address them, what would you do? walk around in circle until they stopped? alter your routine or actions based on their insistence on following you, rather than inquiring as to the provenance of their actions?

I'm not on trial here.

And yes, asking someone to be quiet is aggressive. It's you attempting to exert power over someone else and IMO that is inherently aggressive.
post #1963 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I'm not on trial here.
And yes, asking someone to be quiet is aggressive. It's you attempting to exert power over someone else and IMO that is inherently aggressive.

WOW...
post #1964 of 6250
but you're not trying to exert anything over them, you are attempting to mitigate or cease any infringements upon your liberties. You are righting an injustice, regardless of how small. I do not see that as aggressive, but I do see and acknowledge how it can become aggressive, although the act itself is not. It's all in the application
post #1965 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneeightyseven View Post

but you're not trying to exert anything over them, you are attempting to mitigate or cease any infringements upon your liberties. You are righting an injustice, regardless of how small. I do not see that as aggressive, but I do see and acknowledge how it can become aggressive, although the act itself is not. It's all in the application

crackup[1].gif

So someone talking in a library infringes on your liberties? That's a good one. I had no idea one's liberties were dependent on quiet in a library or theatre.
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