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post #1891 of 6250
Are you suggesting correlation or causation?
post #1892 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbromer View Post

Are you suggesting correlation or causation?

You know that correlation actually can suggest causation? I mean, one does need correlation to prove linear causation when not in the presence of other variables and, at the very least, correlation can indicate the need for further investigation to determine causation or not.
post #1893 of 6250
What I'm saying is that the insinuation that gun ownership is the cause of the higher murder rate in America is false.

Personally I don't think guns cause or don't cause much murder. Maybe if you could completely get rid of them you might cut it down, but you can't. Taking guns away from law abiding people will do nothing.

On the other hand I do believe that high rates of gun ownership contribute to lower lesser crime rates in the 'burbs/rural areas, thinks like robbery, burglary, and so forth. That might help explain why those crimes are so widespread in Europe while they're largely limited to problem areas here.
post #1894 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

What I'm saying is that the insinuation that gun ownership is the cause of the higher murder rate in America is false.

Personally I don't think guns cause or don't cause much murder. Maybe if you could completely get rid of them you might cut it down, but you can't. Taking guns away from law abiding people will do nothing.

On the other hand I do believe that high rates of gun ownership contribute to lower lesser crime rates in the 'burbs/rural areas, thinks like robbery, burglary, and so forth. That might help explain why those crimes are so widespread in Europe while they're largely limited to a few areas here.

I believe high rates of gun ownership cause high rates of gun violence. I do not believe high rates of gun ownership cause high rates of violence though. If you look at countries with lower gun ownership, like say Canada or Japan, you simply find violence with other weapons. Japan in particular is big on violence with blades. Canada tends to use whatever comes to hand.
post #1895 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Let's go through it--
Top 25% income? Lots of guns, very low murder.
Bottom 25% income? Few guns, lots of murder.
Urban? Few guns, lots of murder.
Suburban/rural? Lots of guns, low murder.
Old? Lots of guns, low murder.
Young? Few guns, lots of murder.
White? Lots of guns, low murder.
Black? Few guns, lots of murder.
Single mother? Few guns, lots of murder.
Intact family? Lots of guns, low murder.
Etc., etc.
The highest rates of American gun ownership are among suburban, middle-class whites, who commit murder at about the same rate as people in Europe and Canada.
Well I did just say just about any. Hard to generalize like that.

You are not comparing like with like. What are the stats if you compare say white gun owners with white non-owners, black with black, rich with rich, poor with poor etc?
post #1896 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I believe high rates of gun ownership cause high rates of gun violence. I do not believe high rates of gun ownership cause high rates of violence though. If you look at countries with lower gun ownership, like say Canada or Japan, you simply find violence with other weapons. Japan in particular is big on violence with blades. Canada tends to use whatever comes to hand.

Blade violence in Japan? You've been watching Ninja Scroll too much.
post #1897 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

Blade violence in Japan? You've been watching Ninja Scroll too much.

All these Japanese blade waving dudes are just frightening..facepalm.gif

The equation is simple..

The more guns there is around , the easier it is to get hold of them legally or not..
post #1898 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by lasbar View Post

All these Japanese blade waving dudes are just frightening..facepalm.gif
The equation is simple..
The more guns there is around , the easier it is to get hold of them legally or not..

Britain is the place you want to avoid if you're wary of getting stabbed by a chav if you step down the wrong street.

I'm a military officer and an Aussie, and I don't feel safe unarmed in London.
post #1899 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereis View Post

Britain is the place you want to avoid if you're wary of getting stabbed by a chav if you step down the wrong street.
I'm a military officer and an Aussie, and I don't feel safe unarmed in London.

You're in the Australian army ...

You must be dealing with Fidjian coup d'etat all the time...

You must be eating chavs for breakfast...
post #1900 of 6250
I'm not exactly walking around in combat kit. A knife in your back for your wallet is the main worry, not a drunk kid picking a fight.

I've seen some shocking random acts of violence in London that I've never seen anywhere else.
post #1901 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereis View Post

I'm not exactly walking around in combat kit. A knife in your back for your wallet is the main worry, not a drunk kid picking a fight.
I've seen some shocking random acts of violence in London that I've never seen anywhere else.

South London can be earthy.
post #1902 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nereis View Post

I'm not exactly walking around in combat kit. A knife in your back for your wallet is the main worry, not a drunk kid picking a fight.
I've seen some shocking random acts of violence in London that I've never seen anywhere else.

The U.K. is nuts all over. I saw a guy get glassed and kicked in a pub in a smallish Scottish lowlands town for being drunk and accidentally backing into a table, causing some spillage of pints.
post #1903 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I believe high rates of gun ownership cause high rates of gun violence. I do not believe high rates of gun ownership cause high rates of violence though. If you look at countries with lower gun ownership, like say Canada or Japan, you simply find violence with other weapons. Japan in particular is big on violence with blades. Canada tends to use whatever comes to hand.

Blade violence in Japan? You've been watching Ninja Scroll too much.

Nah, read it in a public health report on rates of violent crimes in a number of developed countries. Also remember reading that in the subject year more women (51) killed their spouses than did men (49) in Canada.
post #1904 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Nah, read it in a public health report on rates of violent crimes in a number of developed countries. Also remember reading that in the subject year more women (51) killed their spouses than did men (49) in Canada.

And what's the population of both countries?
post #1905 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang66 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Nah, read it in a public health report on rates of violent crimes in a number of developed countries. Also remember reading that in the subject year more women (51) killed their spouses than did men (49) in Canada.

And what's the population of both countries?

What does this have to do with anything? confused.gif
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