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killing Trayvon - Page 102

post #1516 of 6250
The media circus surrounding this case will make for an interesting trial from a legal perspective.

First, no matter the evidence, this case has to go all the way to the jury. Which raises the question -- where? Is there anywhere Zimmerman can receive a fair trial? Can any juror really be impartial at this point?

This case has received so much attention that even the President has gone out of his way to comment on it. The media, Sharpton and Jackson have their constituency frothing at the mouth, demanding blood. Given all of this, the prosecutor can not plea this case down. It has to go all the way to trial. As it does, everyone will use it for their own political gain and to grow their constituency. If this mob mentality maintains itself or grows the events surrounding the trial will be like nothing we have ever seen before. My fear, and I do hope that I am wrong, is that if Zimmerman walks or gets anything less than M2, we will see riots across this country that will make South Central pale in comparison.
post #1517 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathustra View Post

. My fear, and I do hope that I am wrong, is that if Zimmerman walks or gets anything less than M2, we will see riots across this country that will make South Central pale in comparison.

white hispanics like FLMM will lose their shit if Zimmerman gets convicted, its a lose/lose.
post #1518 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by zarathustra View Post

The media circus surrounding this case will make for an interesting trial from a legal perspective.
First, no matter the evidence, this case has to go all the way to the jury. Which raises the question -- where? Is there anywhere Zimmerman can receive a fair trial? Can any juror really be impartial at this point?
This case has received so much attention that even the President has gone out of his way to comment on it. The media, Sharpton and Jackson have their constituency frothing at the mouth, demanding blood. Given all of this, the prosecutor can not plea this case down. It has to go all the way to trial. As it does, everyone will use it for their own political gain and to grow their constituency. If this mob mentality maintains itself or grows the events surrounding the trial will be like nothing we have ever seen before. My fear, and I do hope that I am wrong, is that if Zimmerman walks or gets anything less than M2, we will see riots across this country that will make South Central pale in comparison.

I can see that happening.
Fact is that a) if he didn't have the gun..or b) he listened to the dispatch and stopped following T, the kid would still be alive!
post #1519 of 6250
Trial will be televised.
post #1520 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ter1413 View Post

I can see that happening.
Fact is that a) if he didn't have the gun..or b) he listened to the dispatch and stopped following T, the kid would still be alive!

Or c) listened to all training a civilian can get provided that says when you are packing it is your duty to never confront and always retreat. As I said about 50 pages ago, he lost all moral authority (for lack of a better term), when he decided to be confrontational and proactive instead of just a passive observer that would retreat/disengage if challenged.

Bottom line is when civilians with guns do not try and run like little girls they are in the wrong. That's strictly my opinion but one I think is very supportable.
post #1521 of 6250
toughts:

1) Murder 2 seems way too much for the facts that are available. No lesser charge is interesting too, but I don't know how it works in FL. I thought this was going to be a manslaughter case with all arguments/evidence focused on whether the self-defense was good or bad.

2) The press conference by Zimmerman's lawyers about how they basically fired their client seems unethical. Again, I don't know FL law, but I don't know why they needed to play to the media or indicate that Zimmerman was out of the state or talking to Hannity.
post #1522 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Or c) listened to all training a civilian can get provided that says when you are packing it is your duty to never confront and always retreat. As I said about 50 pages ago, he lost all moral authority (for lack of a better term), when he decided to be confrontational and proactive instead of just a passive observer that would retreat/disengage if challenged.
Bottom line is when civilians with guns do not try and run like little girls they are in the wrong. That's strictly my opinion but one I think is very supportable.

+1
post #1523 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVaguy View Post

toughts:

2) The press conference by Zimmerman's lawyers about how they basically fired their client seems unethical. Again, I don't know FL law, but I don't know why they needed to play to the media or indicate that Zimmerman was out of the state or talking to Hannity.
+1. I was also surprised that the attorneys talked about his behavior. The whole press conference by them seemed odd and inappropriate.
post #1524 of 6250

the law states 'stand your ground' can't be used as a defense if you are the instigator

exception: after having started the confrontation you retreat, try to defuse or fear for your life it can be used

 

this is stupid: you could pick a fight with someone you wanted to kill, in the midst 'become fearful for your life' and kill him

if it's only you and him, who's going to present his position?

 

I think zimmerman stalked him, the kid ran (out of fear?) and was chased (zimmerman said as much and was winded)

the kid thought he lost him (told his friend on the phone so) then was surprised when zimmerman rushed him, the phone was dropped/went dead

 

sounds like a scuffle ensued, the kid got the upper hand, and zimmerman shot him

when you look at the phone records it all happened within 3 minutes, the time he said he lost zimmerman until the 911 call about a shooting

 

zimmerman should have waited for the police, the kid was not engaged in criminal activity and was within his rights being there

post #1525 of 6250
My $.02 on what may have happened...

Kid was walking home. Z was following LOOKING shady....after all, he had a gun. Maybe the kid DID turn around and say, WTF are you following me for and Z took that as aggression...and used that as a justification to shoot the kid.

Back to my post above...dude had a gun and didn't listen...Dude was walking around wanting to make a substantial "arrest" so that he could be a legit law enforcement officer and ended up taking T's life...
post #1526 of 6250
As in so many of these shootings, the lines between self-defense, manslaughter and second-degree are very blurry. So for that matter are the facts of this case. If Martin was the first to initiate physical combat and got Zimmerman down and was bashing his head on the pavement, as has been reported in some versions of the story, i still believe it's going to be impossible to get a conviction before any jury that is not bent on a legal lynching.
post #1527 of 6250
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoVaguy View Post

toughts:

1) Murder 2 seems way too much for the facts that are available. No lesser charge is interesting too, but I don't know how it works in FL. I thought this was going to be a manslaughter case with all arguments/evidence focused on whether the self-defense was good or bad.

Manslaughter is a lesser included offense to second degree murder. Unless Florida has some kooky procedural rules, all that would be necessary to have the jury consider that count is for the defense to request the manslaughter instruction be included in the charge to the jury.

In close cases, defense attorneys will sometimes ask that the jury NOT be instructed on a lesser included offense. Doing this kind of "all or nothing" option eliminates the possibility that the jury will reach a compromise verdict of guilty on the lesser included offense while hanging or acquitting on the greater offense.
post #1528 of 6250
Does Z have a new legal team? Who's paying? Pro bono?
post #1529 of 6250
another strike against the hispanic community in the US
post #1530 of 6250
No way in hell he gets a "fair and impartial jury."
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