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Edward Green Appreciation: Pictures, Info, and Where to Buy - Page 649

post #9721 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianL View Post

Thanks Smoothie. Although as you say only speculation it's still interesting. A post that I saw regarding the 890 last on a Swedish blog (http://www.shoegazing.se/2014/07/04/nyhet-edward-green-lanserar-nya-lasten-890/) mentions that the 890 is derived from the RL 89 last (assuming Google translate didn't mangle the meaning when I translated it from Swedish).

- Julian

From what they (EG) told me (without actually saying it), the 890 is a derivative of the 888 in an attempt to phase it out (the 888) and have something that was EG made and not Tony G made as I believe the 888 was. Of course they did not mention Tony G. directly, but one can put 2 & 2 in order to make 4, especially when words like "more English, more defined etc" were being used. That being, the 890 is the new 888 and I expect that the 888 will be phased out slowly but surely. As per it being wider, I can't speak on that front, but the toe is definitely narrower at the tip, but very slightly and is a bit sharper too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoodog View Post


To me, this all seems very expensive though. Sure, TD shoes are marvelous and all, but IMHO they're not that attractive when you consider the bespoke and semi-bespoke alternatives that can be had at the same price level or even considerably lower.

+1 those prices are a bit much....

Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

G&G are looking in to the possibility to offer a hand welted range, only made MTO like Deco, with the same type of pre-cut insoles (where they order the insoles with the holdfasts already cut out) as Saint Crispin's, Enzo Bonafé, Meermin and most other RTW/MTO brands do (more or less just the Hungarians who do their RTW/MTO hand welting the bespoke way, where they cut out the holdfast themselves from a thicker insole). But it was just early plans from G&G which they told me when I visited the factory last fall, not at all sure that it would actually happen. Haven't heard anything about it since then, but I can check with them and see if there's been happening anything on this front (most likely not much though, since they probably been all busy with new factory and shop to look into this as well).

Due to all of the back and forth chat on SF about gemming, G&G did attempt a thick leather insole with holdfast on a RTW shoe and the results were not pleasing to them. Tony told me that there is a reason for gemming in RTW (outside of saving a buck or two) and while I truly can't remember his explanation in full, I remember it making sense in a manufacturing way. I believe that it has do with balance and the finesse of his shoes. If I remember correctly, he said that using the thick leather insole to make a holdfast for welting automatically bulked up his shoes and put them off the balance (way too much toe spring), resulting in a shoe that did not look as appealing (nor as comfortable) as your typical G&G shoe.

This is not exactly what you were referring to in regards to handwelting but does touch on the idea of using leather insoles and holdfasts as opposed to canvas ribs...
post #9722 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handmadeshoes View Post

Due to all of the back and forth chat on SF about gemming, G&G did attempt a thick leather insole with holdfast on a RTW shoe and the results were not pleasing to them. Tony told me that there is a reason for gemming in RTW (outside of saving a buck or two) and while I truly can't remember his explanation in full, I remember it making sense in a manufacturing way. I believe that it has do with balance and the finesse of his shoes. If I remember correctly, he said that using the thick leather insole to make a holdfast for welting automatically bulked up his shoes and put them off the balance (way too much toe spring), resulting in a shoe that did not look as appealing (nor as comfortable) as your typical G&G shoe.

This is not exactly what you were referring to in regards to handwelting but does touch on the idea of using leather insoles and holdfasts as opposed to canvas ribs...

No disrespect to anyone...esp. not Tony...but on the face of it (in the absence of other explanations) that's bogus, IMO. My friend at Colonial Williamsburg makes historically correct (so this isn't new--17th century), hand welted shoes with leather insoles as thin as 6 iron. And I've done dern near the same on some women's shoes I make--all hand welted.

When does an insole become a sockliner and nothing more?

And beyond that, from the insole outward, gemming...which stands proud of the insole...and the concomitant thick cork make for at least as thick a profile as the virtual nothing that sits between a handwelted insole and the outsole.

PS...in my experience, toe spring is toe spring--it is set by the last and, like the heel height, more or less set in stone, as well. Nothing in the closing or bottoming techniques will alter or affect it.

--
Edited by DWFII - 7/8/14 at 7:53am
post #9723 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

No disrespect to anyone...esp. not Tony...but on the face of it (in the absence of other explanations) that's bogus, IMO. My friend at Colonial Williamsburg makes historically correct, hand welted shoes with leather insoles as thin as 6 iron. And I've done dern near the same on some women's shoes I make--all hand welted.

And beyond that from the insole outward, gemming...which stands proud of the insole...and the concomitant thick cork make for at least as thick a profile as the virtual nothing that sits between a handwelted insole and the outsole.

PS...in my experience, toe spring is toe spring--it is set by the last and, like the heel height, more or less set in stone, as well. Nothing in the closing or bottoming techniques will alter or affect it.

--

I understand what you are saying as you can make a bespoke shoes as sleek as possible but that is because it is done by hand from start to finish with a lot of hand-manual manipulation. Now, I want this to turn into the same argument as on the gemming thread as it really is a waste of time. So please realize DW that I am not here to argue which is better, only to reiterate that they did an experiment and found that manufacturing the shoes BY MACHINE and using a thicker leather insole to have a proper holdfast did not give them the desired results for their end-product requirements. And I can concur that the shoes were not as attractive and did look off balance (as I saw the prototype in person).
post #9724 of 11736
^^^ Isn't JM Weston still using a full leather insole with leather holdfast on some models? I think they are more or less then only ones doing it still (wasn't that uncommon in the early years of Goodyear welting if I'm correctly informed). Might be done in a different way than what G&G tried to do though.

@Handmadeshoes I think that the 890 looks better than 888 (I like to call 888 Tony's failed version of MH71 smile.gif ), and sounds reasonable that they want something "own". All good for me if they exchange 888 for 890, just need to try the 890 in F-width and see how it fits me.
post #9725 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handmadeshoes View Post

I understand what you are saying as you can make a bespoke shoes as sleek as possible but that is because it is done by hand from start to finish with a lot of hand-manual manipulation. Now, I want this to turn into the same argument as on the gemming thread as it really is a waste of time. So please realize DW that I am not here to argue which is better, only to reiterate that they did an experiment and found that manufacturing the shoes BY MACHINE and using a thicker leather insole to have a proper holdfast did not give them the desired results for their end-product requirements. And I can concur that the shoes were not as attractive and did look off balance (as I saw the prototype in person).

Thanks for your reply...

I can't speak to the perceived results of manufacturing techniques--I am a bespoke maker and try to limit my use of machines as much as possible. But I will say this...in my opinion and that's all it is--an opinion...degrading the quality of the materials or the techniques in order to accommodate machines raises questions about whether the machines serve us or we serve the machines.

I won't pursue this...if no one else does.
post #9726 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by j ingevaldsson View Post

^^^ Isn't JM Weston still using a full leather insole with leather holdfast on some models still? I think they are more or less then only ones doing it still (wasn't that uncommon in the early years of Goodyear welting if I'm correctly informed). Might be done in a different way than what G&G tried to do though.

i think so yes but that is just hearsay from what others have told me....nothing concrete
post #9727 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handmadeshoes View Post


From what they (EG) told me (without actually saying it), the 890 ... an attempt to ... have something that was EG made and not Tony G made as I believe the 888 was. Of course they did not mention Tony G. directly, but one can put 2 & 2 in order to make 4, ...

 

It's also my understanding that the 888 (and the 82) were designed by Tony G and exactly the same 2 + 2 arithmetic occurred to me when I saw the 890 announcement.

 

- Julian

post #9728 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handmadeshoes View Post

i think so yes but that is just hearsay from what others have told me....nothing concrete

So are they handwelting or or using machines?

Do the lines of JM Westons seem coarse to your eye? Just curious...
post #9729 of 11736
Crosspost from Skoaktiebolaget's thread:

I'm late to the Shannon party but I'm planning on picking this pair up; however, for the order to go through, 2 more interested parties are needed. I believe all orders have to be the same width; I am an E width for reference.

Anyone interested?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaves View Post




Additional information from Leaves:

Maker: Edward Green
Model: Shannon VIII
Color: DKO
Last: 82 last
Sole: B1
Details: Blind eyelets, 4 x speedhooks
Price incl. VAT, within EU: 9300 SEK. Price ex VAT, outside the EU: 7440 SEK (according to the new price list, the old price is NOT valid because this order was placed months ago)
Deposit: 25% pre-order deposit, 75% before delivery

ANY SIZE/ANY WIDTH

Edited by DpprDr - 7/9/14 at 5:19am
post #9730 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by bespoken pa View Post

7.5 for sure first number is always uk sizing. Being a tweener myself I sympathize my galways on the 82 are a 9 US E but I opted for the full leather insole. I ordered my Zugs at the 8.5e US figuring it is a more generous last. I tried on a pair of chelseas at 8.5 US E at leffot and experienced no problems.

Going to finally order my EG Galways with the following specs: 82 Last, Dark Oak and Walnut Country Calf, dainite soles. I'm US9 TTS and tried 82 last in 8.5UK some time ago (BB). Going with UK 8.5E.
post #9731 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Handmadeshoes View Post

From what they (EG) told me (without actually saying it), the 890 is a derivative of the 888 in an attempt to phase it out (the 888) and have something that was EG made and not Tony G made as I believe the 888 was.

Edward Green “Lastology” is a bit of a science. There have been quite a few predecessors to last 890, not only the 888.

It started off with last 88 (which might hark back to the 1930s, I'm not sure). The 88 (John Hlustik: “the Great 88” was a relatively short last (as it was the fashion back then), rather snug across the vamp and had a toe shape that hovered undecided between chisel and round. When EG introduced the second “top drawer” at around 1996 (the current top drawer is the third incarnation), they introduced last 808 (a lengthened version of 88) which was exclusive to top drawer back then. It is possible, the additional length came from solely from an increase in the toe allowance (more room, but also a somewhat sharper toe, maybe slightly more square). I believe, the 808 kept the snugness and shallowness of its 88 predecessor and allegedly didn’t fit people with more fleshy feet.

That’s when Tony G enters the game as he re-designed 808 and came up with the 888 at around 2004. Exactly where the differences between 808 and 888 are, I am not certain but it seems to have more volume through the mid-foot, might be a smidgeon longer and the toe has become more of a chisel. The last 89 was a variation of the 88 and somewhat wider and fuller. I cannot recall ever having seen the last in RL’s European stores (although I have one pair of boots in the 89 which came from Japan). I presume RL USA and RL Europe (Vernier, Switzerland) are independent of each other as far a buying is concerned.

It’s not likely EG will give me access to lasts 88, 89, 808, 888 890 in the same size and width, and armed with measuring stick and tape measure to establish exactly where the differences between the various lasts are. So, I'm afraid, that’s the best I can do.





post #9732 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by DpprDr View Post

Crosspost from Skoaktiebolaget's thread:

I'm late to the Shannon party but I'm planning on picking this pair up; however, for the order to go through, 2 more interested parties are needed. I believe all orders have to be the same width; I am an E width for reference.

Anyone interested?

Any more details on this?

post #9733 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel28 View Post


Going to finally order my EG Galways with the following specs: 82 Last, Dark Oak and Walnut Country Calf, dainite soles. I'm US9 TTS and tried 82 last in 8.5UK some time ago (BB). Going with UK 8.5E.

very nice! I will be going with that exact makeup in the near future myself 

post #9734 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

very nice! I will be going with that exact makeup in the near future myself 

Thanks Ryder! I'm very excited.
post #9735 of 11736
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steel28 View Post


Going to finally order my EG Galways with the following specs: 82 Last, Dark Oak and Walnut Country Calf, dainite soles. I'm US9 TTS and tried 82 last in 8.5UK some time ago (BB). Going with UK 8.5E.

very nice! I will be going with that exact makeup in the near future myself 

 

+1, I have the exact same make-up (single Dainite soles though) and I am extremely happy with them.

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