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post #496 of 622

You will need to ask an actual AdCom how it will change your business school changes. You may very well not be lumped in with the PE people.

post #497 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post

I'm not so sure now about helping b-school prospects now that I think of it. I'd be going from full time engineer to PE intern to something else. Doesn't this confuse my story? Also, wouldn't I then be lumped in with the other PE guys who I wouldn't be able to compete with at all?

wanting to switch career is a very legitimate reason to do an MBA. however, given your background, i would frame it (assuming you take the internship) as wanting to get finance exposure more broadly. finding pe jobs for grads with prior pe experience is already hard enough let alone the nightmare of dealing with and managing expectations of those with prior BB IB or MBB experience, the last thing a bschool would want is to have to deal with another pe hopeful who truthfully (and i'm sorry for saying this) doesn't stand a chance so i would stay away of talking about pe specifically. when assessing an application form a career switcher, adcom are mostly worried about 2 things: is the applicant smart enough to leverage the school name / recruiter connections (judging by your gmat, you should check the box) and is the career plan achievable (ie. transitioning to investment banking or asset management could be, pe not). as long as you're clear that it is a pre-mba internship, i don't think you'd be lumped in with the pe guys.

regarding the opportunity itself, you'll most likely end up spending most of your time originating deal (ie. finding companies and cold-calling them) and probably wouldn't learn a ton, but it might help you strengthen your case when you try to show interest in finance down the road. if i were you, i would try to see if it can be delayed until the summer or at least spring so you can hear back from your applications.
post #498 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper007 View Post

wanting to switch career is a very legitimate reason to do an MBA. however, given your background, i would frame it (assuming you take the internship) as wanting to get finance exposure more broadly. finding pe jobs for grads with prior pe experience is already hard enough let alone the nightmare of dealing with and managing expectations of those with prior BB IB or MBB experience, the last thing a bschool would want is to have to deal with another pe hopeful who truthfully (and i'm sorry for saying this) doesn't stand a chance so i would stay away of talking about pe specifically. when assessing an application form a career switcher, adcom are mostly worried about 2 things: is the applicant smart enough to leverage the school name / recruiter connections (judging by your gmat, you should check the box) and is the career plan achievable (ie. transitioning to investment banking or asset management could be, pe not). as long as you're clear that it is a pre-mba internship, i don't think you'd be lumped in with the pe guys.

Thanks for the thoughts. I don't see what's unrealistic about breaking into PE assuming I have this internship under my belt and get into a Columbia or Booth. Certainly it'd be possible to get in at boutique firms if I keep networking the way I have. I'm guessing the experience and enrollment in a quality MBA prog would just allow me to move up-market as I go through school.

Not trying to be defensive, just trying to get more info out of you. smile.gif
Quote:
regarding the opportunity itself, you'll most likely end up spending most of your time originating deal (ie. finding companies and cold-calling them) and probably wouldn't learn a ton, but it might help you strengthen your case when you try to show interest in finance down the road. if i were you, i would try to see if it can be delayed until the summer or at least spring so you can hear back from your applications.

Both partners (this a two-man firm, just the partners) have told me they get interns involved at all levels of the business, from licking stamps on envelopes to sitting in on company board meetings, and try to give their interns exposure to as much of the business as possible.
post #499 of 622

There is always an element of randomness. What he means is be aware statistically it is very unlikely.

 

I recall an interview I had with my top choice firm once. Had a general knowledge a massive number of industries, particularly their main revenue generating industries.

 

I ended up getting a case surrounding a very european and government centric industry. I did pretty well, maybe a 7/10 or 8/10 especially considering I was missing personal background knowledge on the topic that would have allowed me to make some needed assumptions (things function differently in the USA than EU, especially in regards to the government workings). Other people, however, did better. And just like that, despite months of perfect practice, I had no offer at my first choice.

 

That said, I knew someone at my undergrad who was rejected from GS. Three or four years later as he was going in the elevator going for an interview with their special situations group he ran into the women who rejected him. If you work hard and work smart anything is possible.

post #500 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post

Thanks for the thoughts. I don't see what's unrealistic about breaking into PE assuming I have this internship under my belt and get into a Columbia or Booth. Certainly it'd be possible to get in at boutique firms if I keep networking the way I have. I'm guessing the experience and enrollment in a quality MBA prog would just allow me to move up-market as I go through school.

Not trying to be defensive, just trying to get more info out of you. smile.gif
Both partners (this a two-man firm, just the partners) have told me they get interns involved at all levels of the business, from licking stamps on envelopes to sitting in on company board meetings, and try to give their interns exposure to as much of the business as possible.

i think others have explained this, but anyway it's simple math, PE firms need more associates (pre-MBA) than they do need senior associates (post-MBA) so you see attrition at the MBA level. Far from scientific, but i'd say that most firms will have a senior associate class that's maybe a 1/3 or 1/2 at most of their associate class therefore so many/most firms do not hire MBAs as they are already full from the return offers they gave to their best associates. So you have a situation where many MBAs with 2 years PE + 2 years IBD or MBB will be without a return offer and looking for jobs. As you can imagine, they will get the vast majority of PE jobs. The few remaining position will be filled by people with top tier IBD or MBB experience (~40-50% of the incoming class generally). It's not that you are not smart, but PE is just not an industry that you can move up-market to (it's way way too competitive and there just aren't that many jobs). I dare you to find any PE professionals that didn't do either banking or consulting at a top firm prior to PE. I know it's frustrating, but whether or not you'll ever make it to PE will usually be determined in the spring or your first year after college (someone has mentioned this in the thread before).

in addition, PE recruiting is 90%+ done at HSW, yes people from Booth or Columbia will get in, but they almost always have prior experience in the space or very specific industry / product experience. Your attitude isn't unlike some of my peers when i started bschool, however, most recognized how impossible it would be and changed their focus to other careers path that are as fulfilling. At the end of the day, you are free to do whatever you want, but i just think that you seriously underestimate the quality of others MBA you'll be competing for jobs with. In addition to those with prior PE experience (think Ivy grad + GS & TPG @ HBS or MS & KKR @ GSB), you'll be competing with literally hundreds how have worked at GS, MS, JPM, McK, Bain, etc. I'm sorry but an unpaid internship at a no-name PE firm is just not gotta cut it. As others have said before, i think you would be much better served by focusing your effort into a career switch that more manageable (ie. IBG or PM at a tech firm) which would already be a BIG achievement considering.
post #501 of 622
I understand what you're saying. Thanks for taking the time to elaborate. I just don't really ever accept the numbers game because I think it's possible to network your way in, no matter what the numbers look like. If I accepted the numbers I wouldn't have gotten this offer in the first place, and wouldn't have resolved myself on this path at all. Think about the response I would have gotten in this thread, possibly even by you, by saying "I'm a mechanical engineer at a no-name manufacturing firm. I graduated with a mediocre GPA from a no-name public uni and aside from my second major in economics have no experience in finance. What are my chances of securing an internship at a private equity firm in the next year?" In fact you could probably go back in this thread and see what the responses were from when I was at that point.

I don't even have access to gaining anything but the shallowest understanding of the industry; think of what I could accomplish with a job (even internship) in the field, access to a large network of people that have worked in the industry for years, insider information and experience, access to a large network through schooling, etc. At least that's how I'm looking at it. And I realize how stupid this all sounds, and maybe I'd change my plan through b-school depending on how it goes. Who knows.

But out of everything I've learned in the past year the most important lesson I've learned is that to get anywhere in life you have to be extremely patient and throw your entire being behind what you're intending to accomplish, and that while you should know when to quit, that point should be way, way beyond what a "reasonable" person would recommend and should never involve throwing in the towel entirely.

I have contacts with partners at firms upmarket (though obviously not KKR or Bain) that haven't worked out because of timing and my lack of experience, so I think that if I got this far with networking I'll be in a much better position to network with some experience and MBA prog under my belt.

What I'm getting out of what you're saying though is that it's going to be probably very difficult if not impossible to use this internship to work my way into a full time position in private equity by the time it has concluded, which is helpful to me.

I think what I'm going to do is talk to some professionals in the industry here for their take on it, and then when these guys make a formal offer sit down with them and discuss my reservations, including everything you have said here. Since they're doing this as a favor to me I'm hoping they'll work on this with me constructively, perhaps allowing the internship to be moved to next year after applications (though I hate moving it forward because it's guaranteed uncertainty).
Edited by Khayembii Communique - 12/17/13 at 6:57pm
post #502 of 622

Someone should start a thread on networking do's and dont's.

 

If your genuinely interested in finance stay  in finance. Otherwise go into the technology field. 10 years experience can get you 200k+ salaries and you don't have to wear suits. Plus, everything is technology related now so you'll be in a field of knowledge and power....

 

What does an Investment banker do?

The career path sounds interesting. Meeting with clients and sitting in front of a computer, is sadly, but truly the thing I want to do. Is that what IB's do?  I want to understand the markets and invest accordingly. I want to be able to put everything together and make the best decisions in investing. I want to be able to move upwards eventually in terms of corporate structure maybe manage some people. I am doing it for the money too. From what I hear you have shit working conditions, so I want to be compensated accordingly. I don't feel entitled to it I am trying to mentally prep myself to be lucky if i get a 30k job after my ugrad studies.

 

I am going teaching myself to program in R. I am reading a book published in the 70s about financial analysis and I also have a book on mutual funds. I am also reading The Art of Worldly Wisdom by Baltasar Gracián. To prepare me for my career when im not on this fashion forum looking for advice. (please help me find east coast weather clothes <3) so i can get back to my self studies)

 

I want to know as much as I can about IB, because no matter what I hear I still feel I don't have a big picture. I want to know more about it before I commit the last 3 semesters of my studies towards a Banking path. Though, I fear my lack of knowledge and lack of networking skills will prevent me from reaching my goal.

         I spoke to a a ceo of an international company and an investment banker and/or hedge fund manager at the airport. He talked about all this stuff he did.  Though what bugged me is he said, "just keep doing what your doing and everything will fall in line." Though from what I heard his parents were powerful people and he too told me the industry was going to shit (indirectly of course). What also bugged me is it could have been a networking opportunity that I missed out on. Maybe it was a sign that if I kept doing what i was doing I really will make it! (wishful thinking).

 

Any advice? How can i get an internship? How do you meet people, I am thinking I should expand my network via linkedin.


Edited by Thearkly - 12/27/13 at 3:21pm
post #503 of 622

Based on what you just wrote, I think you have a long way to go.

 

This website is a good place to learn about IB:

 

http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/

 

R is okay, but not as useful as VBA in investment banking, since you'll be writing Macros a lot.

 

Given that you don't seem particularly comfortable with networking or people, I'd advise pursuing a back office role. If after some work there you still feel that ibanking is for you, then you can attempt to move to front office. There are plenty of technology roles within the back office of banks.

post #504 of 622

I will look at that. You can learn networking, can't you ? I am comfortable with meeting people and dealing with them. I just don't know how to network.

ie. Do you say well, its been great talking to you, you should add me on linkedin, or I have to go but I would love to here more about how you IB, why don't we exchange contact info....< any of that kinda stuff. Do those technology roles have anything to do with finance?

 

 

The IB, Financial Analyst, Hedgefunds or Trading. Alot of reading to do, and yet ill never rellay know until I experience it >_>. Oh well. This is how you start right? How much experience/ knowledge did you havebefore you began preparing for your career.  "preparing."


Edited by Thearkly - 12/28/13 at 11:58am
post #505 of 622

It really depends. What year are you? Also where is your undergrad?

post #506 of 622

....


Edited by Thearkly - 1/8/14 at 5:55pm
post #507 of 622

It all depends on if you go to a target or non target school.

 

Hedge fund analyst is likely near impossible without serious connections/mental ability/long standing interest in finance. At least at a top tier one.

 

Your best bet is to read up on what these markets are, on investment banking (Pear and Rosenbaum write a book on this), fixed income (Fabozzi) and to try and meet someone in the industry if you don't go to a target. If you can score really really really high on the Bloomberg BAT test you can also attract some interest. You can also take a course such as those provided by Leverage Academy. All this will help you to understand if this industry is for you and explain the answers in detail to many of your questions above.

post #508 of 622
Do a search because there's a networking thread floating around. A lot of smart/established posters contributed.
post #509 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasper007 View Post

i think others have explained this, but anyway it's simple math, PE firms need more associates (pre-MBA) than they do need senior associates (post-MBA) so you see attrition at the MBA level. Far from scientific, but i'd say that most firms will have a senior associate class that's maybe a 1/3 or 1/2 at most of their associate class therefore so many/most firms do not hire MBAs as they are already full from the return offers they gave to their best associates. So you have a situation where many MBAs with 2 years PE + 2 years IBD or MBB will be without a return offer and looking for jobs. As you can imagine, they will get the vast majority of PE jobs. The few remaining position will be filled by people with top tier IBD or MBB experience (~40-50% of the incoming class generally). It's not that you are not smart, but PE is just not an industry that you can move up-market to (it's way way too competitive and there just aren't that many jobs). I dare you to find any PE professionals that didn't do either banking or consulting at a top firm prior to PE. I know it's frustrating, but whether or not you'll ever make it to PE will usually be determined in the spring or your first year after college (someone has mentioned this in the thread before).

in addition, PE recruiting is 90%+ done at HSW, yes people from Booth or Columbia will get in, but they almost always have prior experience in the space or very specific industry / product experience. Your attitude isn't unlike some of my peers when i started bschool, however, most recognized how impossible it would be and changed their focus to other careers path that are as fulfilling. At the end of the day, you are free to do whatever you want, but i just think that you seriously underestimate the quality of others MBA you'll be competing for jobs with. In addition to those with prior PE experience (think Ivy grad + GS & TPG @ HBS or MS & KKR @ GSB), you'll be competing with literally hundreds how have worked at GS, MS, JPM, McK, Bain, etc. I'm sorry but an unpaid internship at a no-name PE firm is just not gotta cut it. As others have said before, i think you would be much better served by focusing your effort into a career switch that more manageable (ie. IBG or PM at a tech firm) which would already be a BIG achievement considering.

This should be pinned. If you don't have prior experience in PE you won't land at a blue-chip firm as a post-MBA associate...period. Your only chance is to network your way into a small firm in a secondary city, ideally one that invests in a sector you have some experience with. I'd bet the majority of shops don't even recruit post-MBA associates, and the ones that do focus on HBS and GSB and maybe Wharton to a lesser degree. Columbia and Booth aren't on their radar.

The finance world is a big place, I really wonder why so many prospective MBAs latch on to traditional PE like it is the only fulfilling career path one can pursue. If anything it is the one that most closely resembles banking and draws most heavily on the skillset you pick up as an IB analyst. None of this stuff is rocket science but I'd imagine most shops want someone who already knows their way around a model, they aren't in the business of teaching you that stuff (and you definitely aren't going to learn it in B-school).
post #510 of 622

The Bloomberg BAT. You have firsthand experience with it?

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