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Investment Banking Discussion Thread - Page 16

post #226 of 622
Unfortunately, at this point your GPA is the only way for any recruiter to assess your academic skills, which is often an easy proxy for the skills required of an entry-level banker. They're not going to give you a test to see if you're now super smart despite bad grades you had seven years ago, right? So you need to do it yourself. You need to address the strike on your resume that your GPA is and that is just too easy to interpret as "not too smart".

How do you do it? Put yourself through graded situations, exams and tests that will provide a current snapshot of your academic skills. You could do it through a curriculum (Masters) or you can take exams and tests that will provide new benchmarks: study like a dog for the GMAT and get a high nineties percentile, sign up for CFA Level 1, study like a dog, get high grades - put those on your resume. I'm not sure what else there is out there that can add some green check marks on your resume but maybe others have ideas.

You need to address those issues that get you dinged - networking is not enough.
post #227 of 622
I get asked about my college GPA even now, and I graduated in 2004. I even get asked about my SAT scores.

You're barely out of college from the point of view of most people interviewing you. Don't expect that a couple of years working will erase the importance of your academic performance.

Speaking of SAT scores, if you have a good one (over 1500), you should include it on your resume. It has worked well for me and most recruiters have asked me to put it in.
post #228 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

Speaking of SAT scores, if you have a good one (over 2250), you should include it on your resume.

FTFY
post #229 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomestar View Post

FTFY

Ha--don't most people just ignore the writing part? It should be an 800, anyway. Back when it was just on the PSAT, you basically depended on a perfect writing score and 700+ on the other two section to make the semi-finalist cutoff for National Merit Scholarship. Unlike the other two sections, a perfect score could be reliably attained so long as you were very careful.
post #230 of 622
I took the ACT, not the SAT, got 29's and 30's. I think how people rate GPA in terms of importance is going to vary by individual, and I just need to get lucky and find a recruiter that won't make as big of a deal out of it as this guy. Also in the mean time it might be a good idea to study for CFA; I'm not going back for MSFin.

This dude that's been hooking me up with all these contacts is having me contact someone he knows in HR that does his hiring for him. I think this is the 5th or 6th person he's got me in contact with. He's fucking delivering.

BTW I really hijacked this thread. Feel free to change the subject.
post #231 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post

I think how people rate GPA in terms of importance is going to vary by individual, and I just need to get lucky and find a recruiter that won't make as big of a deal out of it as this guy.

You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion. But this not an empirical mystery. Generally, people will care a great deal--particularly because you went to a non-target school.
post #232 of 622
i work for a small boutique/private investment firm. specifically real estate related. i won't even look at people with GPA's above a 3.7. we only hire ivy league... but ultimately, the investment world is a sales position. it's how you act in front of people. i'd hire someone with a 3.0.. shit even a 2.9 if they had interesting stuff on their resume with a lot of worthwhile extracurriculars. anyone with a >3.7 is probably a social idiot that did nothing but live at a desk for 4 years.
post #233 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci View Post

i work for a small boutique/private investment firm. specifically real estate related. i won't even look at people with GPA's above a 3.7. we only hire ivy league... but ultimately, the investment world is a sales position. it's how you act in front of people. i'd hire someone with a 3.0.. shit even a 2.9 if they had interesting stuff on their resume with a lot of worthwhile extracurriculars. anyone with a >3.7 is probably a social idiot that did nothing but live at a desk for 4 years.

I'm sorry--that's an idiotic policy. If you got a 3.0 at an Ivy League school, you must have been too high to go to class. Why would you want people who waste their--very significant and exceptional--opportunities? Last I checked, Wall Street likes people who are smart and hungry, not entitled and lazy.
post #234 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I'm sorry--that's an idiotic policy. If you got a 3.0 at an Ivy League school, you must have been too high to go to class.

grade inflation *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap*




(sorry, ivy league grade inflation athletics chant)
post #235 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I'm sorry--that's an idiotic policy. If you got a 3.0 at an Ivy League school, you must have been too high to go to class. Why would you want people who waste their--very significant and exceptional--opportunities? Last I checked, Wall Street likes people who are smart and hungry, not entitled and lazy.

i disagree. i don't think a 3.0 is lazy. it's a B average. above average. i went to an ivy league school too, and what i found was that i could do basically nothing and get B-'s. if i worked, I could get B+'s... if I busted my ass, like REALLY busted my ass, I could get A-'s and what it took to get an A was seemingly insurmountable. the time cost just wasn't worth it. i could put in a responsible effort and get a low 3 GPA, and have plenty of time to undertake entrepreneurial ventures. the only school with grade inflation that i have seen first hand, and has been confirmed many times, is at harvard. most of my friends went to yale. at my school, econ majors had the highest number of academic probations. grade inflation simply was not a thing.
post #236 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by mafoofan View Post

I get asked about my college GPA even now, and I graduated in 2004. I even get asked about my SAT scores.
You're barely out of college from the point of view of most people interviewing you. Don't expect that a couple of years working will erase the importance of your academic performance.
Speaking of SAT scores, if you have a good one (over 1500), you should include it on your resume. It has worked well for me and most recruiters have asked me to put it in.

You must have taken the SATs after renormalization.
post #237 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by poorsod View Post

You must have taken the SATs after renormalization.

You must be old. smile.gif
post #238 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by imolazhp_ci View Post

i disagree. i don't think a 3.0 is lazy. it's a B average. above average. i went to an ivy league school too, and what i found was that i could do basically nothing and get B-'s. if i worked, I could get B+'s... if I busted my ass, like REALLY busted my ass, I could get A-'s and what it took to get an A was seemingly insurmountable. the time cost just wasn't worth it. i could put in a responsible effort and get a low 3 GPA, and have plenty of time to undertake entrepreneurial ventures. the only school with grade inflation that i have seen first hand, and has been confirmed many times, is at harvard. most of my friends went to yale. at my school, econ majors had the highest number of academic probations. grade inflation simply was not a thing.

The profile and personality of junior guys you are looking to hire sounds quite different than the traits investment bankers tend to look for in junior analyst recruits. One of the most important one is the ability to work really hard and bust their ass for two years. You've just explained above why a high GPA is easy to use as a proxy for this. It's a better assurance that you're hiring a hard worker than a few words someone will say in an interview to get the job.
post #239 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdl203 View Post

The profile and personality of junior guys you are looking to hire sounds quite different than the traits investment bankers tend to look for in junior analyst recruits. One of the most important one is the ability to work really hard and bust their ass for two years. You've just explained above why a high GPA is easy to use as a proxy for this. It's a better assurance that you're hiring a hard worker than a few words someone will say in an interview to get the job.

That's the key right there. A high GPA is a good proxy for what it takes to be an investment banking analyst. It's all about putting in the hard work and kissing your professor's (I mean, VP's) ass. How smart you are is not really important, because fundamentally, the job is not difficult.

Now, if you have a lousy GPA, there are some strategies to help. If, as the earlier posted noted, you had a really poor freshman year, you could list your "GPA in major" which would generally exclude your freshman year. I had a similar problem - I had two 'incompletes' on my transcript from my freshman year (because I skipped the final exams to take up a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity) which dragged my GPA waaay down for the rest of my undergrad years. I was able to work around it.

Knowing what I know now, I'd be inclined to list my GPA (for investment banking) as a 4.0* "Adjusted GPA" (*not a GAAP measure, excluding certain extraordinary items). If I saw that on a resume, I'd think it was hilarious.
post #240 of 622
Quote:
Originally Posted by tj100 View Post

That's the key right there. A high GPA is a good proxy for what it takes to be an investment banking analyst. It's all about putting in the hard work and kissing your professor's (I mean, VP's) ass. How smart you are is not really important, because fundamentally, the job is not difficult.
Now, if you have a lousy GPA, there are some strategies to help. If, as the earlier posted noted, you had a really poor freshman year, you could list your "GPA in major" which would generally exclude your freshman year. I had a similar problem - I had two 'incompletes' on my transcript from my freshman year (because I skipped the final exams to take up a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity) which dragged my GPA waaay down for the rest of my undergrad years. I was able to work around it.
Knowing what I know now, I'd be inclined to list my GPA (for investment banking) as a 4.0* "Adjusted GPA" (*not a GAAP measure, excluding certain extraordinary items). If I saw that on a resume, I'd think it was hilarious.

What was her name?


Agree on picking the GPA that suits you best but most people will ask the real one anyway.
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