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PINCH TEST

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 

I have read the threads about suit quality and pinch tests.. canvassed/fused, etc..

I have owned a 'real" brooks brothers suit years ago that truly stood the test of time. I am in the market for a new suit(s) , and do have funds to get a "good" one. I know the hickey freemans, and certain brooks suits, canali's, etc.. are good quality, however i did purchase 2 suits at the brooks brothers outlets (the 346 line suits). 

Now let me tell you.  I just did not want to spend a lot of money at this point and only need the suits for a few occassions.  I absolutely know what i am getting in that they are less quality than the high end "real" brooks suits,  However, I did do a pinch test on both of these suits.

Firstly, these suits are not stiff or boxy and seem to move with me very well.    As far as the pinch test?    I pinched both suits in a few spots on the front of the jacket and I fell a "3rd" layer in between.    According to the test, these are canvassed?    not fused?  So the 346 line does make good suits that are canvassed?  I'm not saying the wool is as good as a custom or high end suit, however,  Am I mistaken here?    I definitely feel a 3rd distinct layer in these suits?  

 

please advise of comment

Thanks

post #2 of 36
Hickey Freeman mainline and Canali are likely going to be full canvas. Brooks 346 is fused.

Floating canvas layer above chest pocket + towards bottom of jacket = full canvas
Floating canvas layer only above chest pocket = half canvas
No floating canvas anywhere = fused
post #3 of 36
Thread Starter 

But what is the layer I felt inbetween the inside and outside of the jacket on several spots?  It feel like a layer of fabric in between.  Isn't that what the test is about?  if you feel a distinct 3rd layer the test states it's canvassed?  

post #4 of 36
Thread Starter 

I feel the same layer in my black fleece brooks suit from years ago?

post #5 of 36
Thread Starter 

So I do feel the "floating" canvas in between ...?

post #6 of 36
Dude, 346 aint canvassed. Don't know what you're feeling
post #7 of 36
Thread Starter 

actually we looked again, one of the suits says 346 the other doesn't.  not sure what cut this was at the outlet but doesn't say it on the jacket.  and this is the one we feel the 3rd layer.  so , great, we got a canvassed suit!

post #8 of 36
the biggest issue is fusing. The word itself is indicative. A fusing is a layer of cloth that is literally glued or cemented directly to the exterior cloth of your suit. It is designed as a cheap way to add some structure to a suit. It is present in the front panels of a suit (mostly) that is not fully canvassed. You will not have any fusing in the arms or back of a fused suit.

test; pinch the back of your suit, making sure not to grab the inner lining. Feel the thickness of the cloth in that area and notice how it moves and hangs. Now do the same to the front panels. If the suit is fused, the cloth (top layer, again making sure not to grab lining or other layers that are present) will feel thicker and stiffer and will not move as freely and will bend with bigger radius- it will simply not feel as nice as the cloth in the back or arm. That is fusing, NOT any other layers of canvass or chest peice or padding etc that can be present in a suit no matter if fused or fully canvassed.

So yes you can have a fused suit that has a middle distinctive layer which is most likely the chess piece or an extension of it, but that does not remove the fact the top (visible) cloth is cemented to a layer underneeth that you can not feel distincly. In fact this may instead be a half canvassed suit (or not) depending on where exactly all the layers/fusing are exactly underneeth the front panels. Yup that's right - a half canvassed suit will most likely have some fusing (perhaps as much as a suit that is considered fused)

Conclusion; determining a fully canvassed suit = easy: no fusing anywhere in front panels
determined fully fused suit from half canvassed = Not so easy

basically though, for anyone that already has alot of suits or wants to really have top end suits you can use the heavy handed fascist approach: that is the second I feel fusing anywhere the suit goes back on the rack , period.
post #9 of 36
The pinch-test is the menswear equivalent of the pull-out method.
post #10 of 36
This forum should be renamed Fully Canvassed Forum.
post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by gladhands View Post

The pinch-test is the menswear equivalent of the pull-out method.

sig worthy.
post #12 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post

the biggest issue is fusing. The word itself is indicative. A fusing is a layer of cloth that is literally glued or cemented directly to the exterior cloth of your suit. It is designed as a cheap way to add some structure to a suit. It is present in the front panels of a suit (mostly) that is not fully canvassed. You will not have any fusing in the arms or back of a fused suit.
test; pinch the back of your suit, making sure not to grab the inner lining. Feel the thickness of the cloth in that area and notice how it moves and hangs. Now do the same to the front panels. If the suit is fused, the cloth (top layer, again making sure not to grab lining or other layers that are present) will feel thicker and stiffer and will not move as freely and will bend with bigger radius- it will simply not feel as nice as the cloth in the back or arm. That is fusing, NOT any other layers of canvass or chest peice or padding etc that can be present in a suit no matter if fused or fully canvassed.
So yes you can have a fused suit that has a middle distinctive layer which is most likely the chess piece or an extension of it, but that does not remove the fact the top (visible) cloth is cemented to a layer underneeth that you can not feel distincly. In fact this may instead be a half canvassed suit (or not) depending on where exactly all the layers/fusing are exactly underneeth the front panels. Yup that's right - a half canvassed suit will most likely have some fusing (perhaps as much as a suit that is considered fused)
Conclusion; determining a fully canvassed suit = easy: no fusing anywhere in front panels
determined fully fused suit from half canvassed = Not so easy
basically though, for anyone that already has alot of suits or wants to really have top end suits you can use the heavy handed fascist approach: that is the second I feel fusing anywhere the suit goes back on the rack , period.

This.

The third layer doesn't always tell the whole story whether the jacket is fully canvassed or not. A better term is actually floating canvas interlining, the canvas in-between fabrics should be "floating" and not glued to the fabric. Have a look on jefferyd thread regarding this subject.
post #13 of 36
Unless it's golden fleece, black fleece, or one of their "hand tailored" lines, it's not fully canvassed.

And who is we?
post #14 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTA View Post

This.
The third layer doesn't always tell the whole story whether the jacket is fully canvassed or not. A better term is actually floating canvas interlining, the canvas in-between fabrics should be "floating" and not glued to the fabric. Have a look on jefferyd thread regarding this subject.

Fusing is attached to the outer fabric though, so even though it is technically a third layer it doesn't really feel like one, it just feels like the outer fabric is thicker.
post #15 of 36

I have to say I am ready to go to tailor school at this point. I have read all the threads and done all the tests and it is driving me crazy at this point. Brooks Brothers advertises half canvas construction on the Fitzgerald line, but not the Madison and charges the same amount. Hart Shaffner Marx has a "floating canvas chest piece" on the classic fit and not the modern fit. Jos A Bank advertises half canvas contruction on the signature golds. I have yet to meet a saleperson from Macys to Nordstrom to Saks who gives me a clear cut answer without trying to push me up a brand. Hickey Freeman doesn't use the term canvas anywhere on its clothes or website.

 

I am a believer that this is a crucial difference along with the fabric from paying $200 on sale at an outlet and dropping more than $600 on a higher end suit. BUT I am getting frustrating with my inability to accurately execute this pinch test shit.

 

I have now gone as far as cutting open an old 346 books brothers outlet which was definitely a 346 that I got on some blow out sale for $200 and you won't believe what I found. I found a tough piece of fabric, which highly resembled a canvas piece, stitched in between the outer layer of the coat and the lining. Everything I tore or cut was stitching with no apparent glue to be found. Below this chest piece was was the pocket and other areas which were stitched. I have seen where fusing strips are used and there were fabric strips reinforcing the pocket and seams, but they appeared to be stitched as well. 

 

I want to believe this is a fused suit. I just wish I could clearly tell the difference between it and others which are advertised as half canvassed, and I am struggling mightily.

 

Did I miss something in my experiment? Do I not fully understand the process of fusing?

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