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Distance between buttons and cloth's edge on a sport coat

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I've been researching for a while on this subject, but I can't find a specific rule; albeit I suspect there must be something (if it does, sure you boys know).
The thing is that I own a sport coat which fits me really fine, but I'd be utterly happy if I could make it be just a little bit more taylored at the torso (when buttoned, I mean). I thought I could just move buttons 3/4 (inches) to the right (from 3/4 to 1 1/2). I've already moved the middle button just to try and the fit is perfect that way. Am I breaking any rule? The sport coat is rather "casual" (sort of moderate saharan jacket).

Thank you very much.
post #2 of 15
Yes the buttons can be moved somewhat. Sometimes if the person gains a little weight the shank on the button is sewn longer.
Sometimes the side-seams are taken in or let out, but that is a lot more work.
post #3 of 15
Bear in mind that moving the buttons will technically make the front of the coat slightly asymmetrical, because you can't also move the corresponding buttons the same amount. You can probably get away with moving them a little bit but I'm not sure how much.
post #4 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thank you guys for your comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum View Post

Bear in mind that moving the buttons will technically make the front of the coat slightly asymmetrical, because you can't also move the corresponding buttons the same amount. You can probably get away with moving them a little bit but I'm not sure how much.

That's right. Fortunately, pockets and darts remain symmetrical no matter what you do with the buttons. Main assymetrical object is the button itself (with regard to the natural axis of the garment), which is hardly noticeable since only one button is to be fastened.
post #5 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Kurtz. View Post

Fortunately, pockets and darts remain symmetrical no matter what you do with the buttons.

The entire front will be asymmetrical because the center-front is being pulled off-center.
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Actually, I don't think so. I simulated the movement in a drawing (I know, I know...; more nerd bonus points) and button is the only asymmetric thing in the final layout. Overall set rebalances itself (V on the neck, pockets, darts...), only with a slight more (sort of) "double-breast effect".

376


Or, going realistic, considering shoulders as an immutable measure...

600
post #7 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Kurtz. View Post

Actually, I don't think so. I simulated the movement in a drawing (I know, I know...; more nerd bonus points) and button is the only asymmetric thing in the final layout. Overall set rebalances itself (V on the neck, pockets, darts...), only with a slight more (sort of) "double-breast effect".
376
Or, going realistic, considering shoulders as an immutable measure...
600

It's going to turn out wrong, but it's your jacket. Ignore everyones advice and go for it.
post #8 of 15
Thread Starter 
Advice was being rather permissive up to then...:
Quote:
Originally Posted by greger View Post

Yes the buttons can be moved somewhat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum View Post

You can probably get away with moving them a little bit but I'm not sure how much.

...when you came. But you weren't then, when I posted the post you quote. And you're not "everyone" for sure (albeit you represent 33%, I admit; 25% if counting me):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artking3 View Post

It's going to turn out wrong



Debating isn't ignoring, btw (actually, I'd say it's just the opposite).
post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Kurtz. View Post

Actually, I don't think so. I simulated the movement in a drawing (I know, I know...; more nerd bonus points) and button is the only asymmetric thing in the final layout. Overall set rebalances itself (V on the neck, pockets, darts...), only with a slight more (sort of) "double-breast effect".

You're right. The only thing that will be off center is the button. the center front lines on each piece of the jacket (the left and right front pieces) will each be pulled an equal amount in opposite directions and everything else will remain symmetrical. It might be a little weird looking, depending on how much you move the button, but if it looks fine to you, just do it. I doubt anybody will notice.
post #10 of 15
^ I disagree. The asymmetry may be so subtle that no one will notice, but it will be there. I come to this conclusion by visualizing moving the button a foot in either direction (imagining that there is material there to widen by one foot). It would throw the jacket horribly out of whack. If this is true for a large movement of the button then it is true for a small movement. The only difference is a matter of degree.

In order to maintain symmetry, the buttonhole would have to be moved in coordination with the button.

Anyway, interesting exercise and if someone wants to refute what I wrote here I would be interested to hear where I went wrong.
post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post

^ I disagree. The asymmetry may be so subtle that no one will notice, but it will be there. I come to this conclusion by visualizing moving the button a foot in either direction (imagining that there is material there to widen by one foot). It would throw the jacket horribly out of whack. If this is true for a large movement of the button then it is true for a small movement. The only difference is a matter of degree.
In order to maintain symmetry, the buttonhole would have to be moved in coordination with the button.
Anyway, interesting exercise and if someone wants to refute what I wrote here I would be interested to hear where I went wrong.

This is all theory anyway. We should have the OP go ahead with the alterations as a practical exercise.
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
IMO, key factor is what elements are to consider when evaluating symmetry. Pockets, seams and V on the neck vertex are always symmetric. We must have into account that the axis is in the middle of the shoulders; and pockets are in a fixed location with regard to its corresponding shoulder's vertex. This way, when you overlap (even a foot), shoulders approach to each other but so are pockets and sides. This happens regardless buttonhole not being moved.
On the other hand, considering other elements as button and overlapped fabric, asymmetry do increase progressively as we displace button; indeed. Consensus about button is clear, but... what happens with overlapped material? Obviously, it does enlarge; yes. The thing is that all jackets are asymmetric at that point, so it doesn't materializes when moving button; it just increases. That's why I referred to it as "double breast effect" (because, since every single buttonable garment is asymmetric at the overlaped portion, double breasted jackets are the maximum expression of it). Of course, it would look rather weird in a regular jacket, as double breasted jackets are a completely different animal.
post #13 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artking3 View Post

This is all theory anyway. We should have the OP go ahead with the alterations as a practical exercise.

Oh, I did it as a trial (as mentioned in the first post). Symmetry (except for buttons) and fit are OK. Only weird issues are buttons' symmetry and distance between them and cloth's edge.

Finally, I must admit that I'll probably go back to its original condition. Button asymmetry is not that noticeable, but neither is fit improvement. So, I think I'll feel better (peace of mind wise) knowing everything's perfectly aligned.
post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artking3 View Post

This is all theory anyway. We should have the OP go ahead with the alterations as a practical exercise.

It's not theoretical at all. I just laid out a 38S 1818 Fitz suit jacket and moved the buttonhole to where it would be if the button were moved 6 inches across the jacket. Now the left side of the jacket overlaps the right front pocket. Worn like this the right front panel of the jacket is about six inches wide (to the side seam) while the left panel is 12 inches wide. If put on a body, the left side seam would be coming around onto the front of the jacket as worn. Don't be confused by the fact that a double breasted jacket has overlap in the front. This is not symmetrical.
post #15 of 15
If you are happy to wear it, then all these drawings are totally unnecessary.

Others can laugh it the issues at their choice.
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