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Which car would you lease for 3 years? - Page 4

Poll Results: Which car would you lease for 3 years as a short term option before upgrading?

 
  • 25% (18)
    BMW 3 series
  • 12% (9)
    BMW 5 series
  • 32% (23)
    Audi A5
  • 8% (6)
    Mercedes C-class coupe
  • 4% (3)
    Mercedes E-class coupe
  • 15% (11)
    Other
70 Total Votes  
post #46 of 76
well, considering a decent 3 series is nearing $50K out the door with real world options and tax, wouldn't you want to make a little more than $70K a year before hopping into that kind of loan?
post #47 of 76
Like any major purchase I think it's going to depend on your entire picture. Kid out of college, live at home or in a place the 'rents bought for you, no student loans or consumer debt...you're in a completely different place than a 45 year old with mortgage, credit card debt, kids to feed and school, etc.
post #48 of 76
A5 for awd winter capabilities
smooth car to look at too
post #49 of 76
335 is the only decent car on that list. Plus it will be far less to lease since BMW FS has ridiculously good lease deals if you do your homework.

I lease a M3 coupe for around the same rate as a fuckin' lipstick-on-a-pig-slower-than-a-Civic A5 or faux-luxury-overweight-underpowered-shitbox Mercedes C-class. I put around 20K/yr on my leased cars. BMW buy rate in advance for miles is 16 cents. Don't give a fuck at that rate. Total lease cost when I turn in my M3 with 50K miles on it (perfectly timed to go Germany to pick up the next version) will still be less than the rate Audi quoted me (at invoice) for a S5 @ 36K miles and I pay nothing for maintenance. happy.gificon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #50 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by username79 View Post

335 is the only decent car on that list. Plus it will be far less to lease since BMW FS has ridiculously good lease deals if you do your homework.
I lease a M3 coupe for around the same rate as a fuckin' lipstick-on-a-pig-slower-than-a-Civic A5 or faux-luxury-overweight-underpowered-shitbox Mercedes C-class. I put around 20K/yr on my leased cars. BMW buy rate in advance for miles is 16 cents. Don't give a fuck at that rate. Total lease cost when I turn in my M3 with 50K miles on it (perfectly timed to go Germany to pick up the next version) will still be less than the rate Audi quoted me (at invoice) for a S5 @ 36K miles and I pay nothing for maintenance. happy.gificon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

umm if you max out the security deposits and pay the fees during signing to bring the money factor down... you still pay $8xx a month for a 10k/year lease... as me how i know -__-
post #51 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennglock View Post

It's probably wrong to presume anyone in a 3series BMW is an unsufferable shithead making 70k a year, because it's a nice little car, but there it is. Among a certain set in New Jersey, leasing one of these cars appears to be a key part of some elaborate mating ritual. That right there is enough to keep my far away from the dealship.

I make more than 70k a year and can't afford a bimmer. Am I bad with finances or a twit for living in the city?
post #52 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior varsity View Post

umm if you max out the security deposits and pay the fees during signing to bring the money factor down... you still pay $8xx a month for a 10k/year lease... as me how i know -__-

No. I'm paying a couple hundred less than that including tax (9%) for 12K/yr on my 2011.5 E92. Zero down but used all MSDs. In late 2010 people were getting E93s in the high $500s/per month + taxes. Amazing deal.

If I turn in the car with 50k miles on it (14K overage) my total lease cost including all taxes & fees divided by 36 monthly payments will still be less than $700/mo.

If you leased in 2008 or 2009 I could see $800-$1000/mo though, but not anymore.

When I went to the Audi dealership to price the S5 the salesman reluctantly (after crying about how BMW is "whoring out" their cars) came down to invoice plus $250 and actual MF and residual since I had the numbers in advance. It was still around $825/mo IIRC.

Everyone should have a leased M3. They're ridiculously fun to drive, look great, maintenance is free, they have seemingly zero reliability issues, good enough to do weekend track days stock and drive home, the folding rear seats and bolt in roof rack allows far more utility than much larger sedans and they're available in the same price range as a 200hp A5 if you do the lease deal correctly.
Edited by username79 - 4/26/12 at 8:31am
post #53 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by username79 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior varsity View Post

umm if you max out the security deposits and pay the fees during signing to bring the money factor down... you still pay $8xx a month for a 10k/year lease... as me how i know -__-

No. I'm paying a couple hundred less than that including tax (9%) for 12K/yr on my 2011.5 E92. Zero down but used all MSDs. In late 2010 people were getting E93s in the high $500s/per month + taxes. Amazing deal.

If I turn in the car with 50k miles on it (14K overage) my total lease cost including all taxes & fees divided by 36 monthly payments will still be less than $700/mo.

If you leased in 2008 or 2009 I could see $800-$1000/mo though, but not anymore.

When I went to the Audi dealership to price the S5 the salesman reluctantly (after crying about how BMW is "whoring out" their cars) came down to invoice plus $250 and actual MF and residual since I had the numbers in advance. It was still around $825/mo.

What do these cars retail for? Let's round "high $500s" to $600 a month for easy math.

36 months x $600 / month = 21600.

Say the interest rate, converted into a money factor, was 3% so you get .00125

Figure out carry cost by (actual cap cost - residual) x money factor. Have no idea what those first two numbers are but obviously it would be subtracted off the 21.6k and then you'd divide that by 36 and get your monthly depreciation.

Btw, what is an "actual money factor" and to junior varsity what fees are these you paid to bring down the money factor? I mean, residuals and money factors are set by the leasing entity. Every lease I've ever done, and I've done a lot, the action is in the actual cap cost and pretty much nothing else. For instance, Mercedes Financial tells the dealerships what the residual and money factor is for the quarter, and that's not hard to find on the Net. The thing to work on is the cap cost, which is part negotiating the sales price the dealership sells the car to MB Financial, and part knowing dealer incentives, such as available "dealer dolalrs," bonuses for a car on the lot 30 days or less (dealership doesn't have to pay floor plan on it either), etc.
post #54 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

What do these cars retail for? Let's round "high $500s" to $600 a month for easy math.
36 months x $600 / month = 21600.
Say the interest rate, converted into a money factor, was 3% so you get .00125
Figure out carry cost by (actual cap cost - residual) x money factor. Have no idea what those first two numbers are but obviously it would be subtracted off the 21.6k and then you'd divide that by 36 and get your monthly depreciation.
Btw, what is an "actual money factor" and to junior varsity what fees are these you paid to bring down the money factor? I mean, residuals and money factors are set by the leasing entity. Every lease I've ever done, and I've done a lot, the action is in the actual cap cost and pretty much nothing else. For instance, Mercedes Financial tells the dealerships what the residual and money factor is for the quarter, and that's not hard to find on the Net. The thing to work on is the cap cost, which is part negotiating the sales price the dealership sells the car to MB Financial, and part knowing dealer incentives, such as available "dealer dolalrs," bonuses for a car on the lot 30 days or less (dealership doesn't have to pay floor plan on it either), etc.

I checked the forums and found the original thread about the E93s that I remembered. Guy actually got $502/mo for an E93. Retail IIRC was around $75k at the time. Of course the deal doesn't exist anymore but it shows the virtue of waiting for the right opportunity.

--> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499496

Actual money factor = usually dealers mark up the money factor at least in my experience. I get the number in advance (ridewithg) and ask for it specifically.

I remember going in to my local dealer when I first started shopping for the M3. Money factor at the time IIRC was .00156. Asked for what kind of deal they would make me and when they came back monthly payment came out to something like $950. Asked to see the deal sheet. After a lot of "we don't share those numbers" finally got a look at it and saw the MF marked up to .00260. Dealers will throw in all kind of mark ups - bogus doc fees, mark up lease acquisition cost (base rate for BMW is $725), and so on.

BMW offers a multiple security deposit (MSD) option where each deposit brings down the MF by .0007. You can use a maximum of seven. A starting MF of .00156 then becomes .00107. MSDs are fully refunded after lease disposition and gap coverage is included in any BMWFS lease. MSDs are your lease price rounded upwards to the nearest $50, so $627/mo means you pay 7x MSDs at $650.

All in all reading and following the leasing advice on internet forums saved me around $300/mo and I'm so bad at math I can't even add two double digit numbers in my head.

Keys to BMW leasing:

- Do European Delivery at European Delivery invoice + small markup ($500). Take 7% off from MSRP to get invoice, another 7% off of that for ED invoice.
- When you lease via European Delivery cap cost is at ED invoice but residual is calculated at US MSRP
- Use 7 MSDs for MF reduction of .00049
- Ensure MF not marked up, no doc fee or state minimum, no training/MACO fees (not needed for ED lease), and lease acq. fee at base rate
- TIme purchase to coincide with biannual incentives. Usually a $1000/$1500 loyalty or holiday cash incentive twice a year used as cap cost reduction.
Edited by username79 - 4/26/12 at 11:49am
post #55 of 76
Wow. So you're saying I can lease a brand new e92 m3 for less than 600 a month?
post #56 of 76
I can flip burgers full time, live at home for free, and drive a new M3!
post #57 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFrog View Post

Wow. So you're saying I can lease a brand new e92 m3 for less than 600 a month?

That seems like a smokin deal. I kind of assumed you wouldnt be able to get into one of those for much less than $800/mo.
post #58 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by username79 View Post

I checked the forums and found the original thread about the E93s that I remembered. Guy actually got $502/mo for an E93. Retail IIRC was around $75k at the time. Of course the deal doesn't exist anymore but it shows the virtue of waiting for the right opportunity.
--> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499496
Actual money factor = usually dealers mark up the money factor at least in my experience. I get the number in advance (ridewithg) and ask for it specifically.
I remember going in to my local dealer when I first started shopping for the M3. Money factor at the time IIRC was .00156. Asked for what kind of deal they would make me and when they came back monthly payment came out to something like $950. Asked to see the deal sheet. After a lot of "we don't share those numbers" finally got a look at it and saw the MF marked up to .00260. Dealers will throw in all kind of mark ups - bogus doc fees, mark up lease acquisition cost (base rate for BMW is $725), and so on.
BMW offers a multiple security deposit (MSD) option where each deposit brings down the MF by .0007. You can use a maximum of seven. A starting MF of .00156 then becomes .00107. MSDs are fully refunded after lease disposition and gap coverage is included in any BMWFS lease. MSDs are your lease price rounded upwards to the nearest $50, so $627/mo means you pay 7x MSDs at $650.
All in all reading and following the leasing advice on internet forums saved me around $300/mo and I'm so bad at math I can't even add two double digit numbers in my head.
Keys to BMW leasing:
- Do European Delivery at European Delivery invoice + small markup ($500). Take 7% off from MSRP to get invoice, another 7% off of that for ED invoice.
- When you lease via European Delivery cap cost is at ED invoice but residual is calculated at US MSRP
- Use 7 MSDs for MF reduction of .00049
- Ensure MF not marked up, no doc fee or state minimum, no training/MACO fees (not needed for ED lease), and lease acq. fee at base rate
- TIme purchase to coincide with biannual incentives. Usually a $1000/$1500 loyalty or holiday cash incentive twice a year used as cap cost reduction.

ugh... confused.gif........
really? that sounds retarded because my sales man at the dealer was like no way i can even get into the low 6s with max security deposits
because if you look at it...
its a 70000 car
and after 3 years its gonna be worth around half the cost... e93 is considered very good so its projected depreciation is around 45%
45% of 70000 is $31000... then you divide that number by 36 = 875 and that is 0% interest.

if you pay $500 a month x 36 months thats only $18000...
so bmw lets you use a 70000 dollar M3 for 3 years for only $18000??? thats 0% interest too

the math dont add up bro!
the only way for that math to work is if the car costed around 35-40k... because if you do zero down, you can get maybe a 328i for 500 a month out the door
Edited by junior varsity - 4/26/12 at 2:30pm
post #59 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by username79 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

What do these cars retail for? Let's round "high $500s" to $600 a month for easy math.
36 months x $600 / month = 21600.
Say the interest rate, converted into a money factor, was 3% so you get .00125
Figure out carry cost by (actual cap cost - residual) x money factor. Have no idea what those first two numbers are but obviously it would be subtracted off the 21.6k and then you'd divide that by 36 and get your monthly depreciation.
Btw, what is an "actual money factor" and to junior varsity what fees are these you paid to bring down the money factor? I mean, residuals and money factors are set by the leasing entity. Every lease I've ever done, and I've done a lot, the action is in the actual cap cost and pretty much nothing else. For instance, Mercedes Financial tells the dealerships what the residual and money factor is for the quarter, and that's not hard to find on the Net. The thing to work on is the cap cost, which is part negotiating the sales price the dealership sells the car to MB Financial, and part knowing dealer incentives, such as available "dealer dolalrs," bonuses for a car on the lot 30 days or less (dealership doesn't have to pay floor plan on it either), etc.

I checked the forums and found the original thread about the E93s that I remembered. Guy actually got $502/mo for an E93. Retail IIRC was around $75k at the time. Of course the deal doesn't exist anymore but it shows the virtue of waiting for the right opportunity.

--> http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=499496

Actual money factor = usually dealers mark up the money factor at least in my experience. I get the number in advance (ridewithg) and ask for it specifically.

I remember going in to my local dealer when I first started shopping for the M3. Money factor at the time IIRC was .00156. Asked for what kind of deal they would make me and when they came back monthly payment came out to something like $950. Asked to see the deal sheet. After a lot of "we don't share those numbers" finally got a look at it and saw the MF marked up to .00260. Dealers will throw in all kind of mark ups - bogus doc fees, mark up lease acquisition cost (base rate for BMW is $725), and so on.

BMW offers a multiple security deposit (MSD) option where each deposit brings down the MF by .0007. You can use a maximum of seven. A starting MF of .00156 then becomes .00107. MSDs are fully refunded after lease disposition and gap coverage is included in any BMWFS lease. MSDs are your lease price rounded upwards to the nearest $50, so $627/mo means you pay 7x MSDs at $650.

All in all reading and following the leasing advice on internet forums saved me around $300/mo and I'm so bad at math I can't even add two double digit numbers in my head.

Keys to BMW leasing:

- Do European Delivery at European Delivery invoice + small markup ($500). Take 7% off from MSRP to get invoice, another 7% off of that for ED invoice.
- When you lease via European Delivery cap cost is at ED invoice but residual is calculated at US MSRP
- Use 7 MSDs for MF reduction of .00049
- Ensure MF not marked up, no doc fee or state minimum, no training/MACO fees (not needed for ED lease), and lease acq. fee at base rate
- TIme purchase to coincide with biannual incentives. Usually a $1000/$1500 loyalty or holiday cash incentive twice a year used as cap cost reduction.

I've used ridewithg to get money factors and residuals as well as other sites. No way anyone is leasing a 70k car for 21.6k out of pocket over 36 months. The only way would be with thousands as a downpayment to lower cap cost and then who cares?

Oh, and as far as numbers, at a place where I am not a returning customer I just tell them I'm more interested in the residual and money factor than a monthly for the first round. If they won't give me that I just walk. I always know what the current residual and money factor is before I go in, that's just proper due diligence. At my MB dealership they just know me and work off the "repeat customer" philosophy at this point. On our fourth car from them so it's win/win for everyone.
post #60 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

I've used ridewithg to get money factors and residuals as well as other sites. No way anyone is leasing a 70k car for 21.6k out of pocket over 36 months. The only way would be with thousands as a downpayment to lower cap cost and then who cares?

The E93 deals were a .00081 money factor (w/ multiple security deposits) and 64% residual and zero money down combined with pricing at European Delivery invoice. MSRP at 72k. This yielded payments in the low 500s for 36/10K. The MSD option is unique in the industry as far as I know and combine with European Delivery (not sure why anyone would not do ED) to make BMW lease deals significantly more attractive than the competition.

Caveats:

- BMW holds 5K of your money for three years. If 5K is a cash flow problem for someone then probably not a good time to buy a 50K+ car.
- Willing to take a week vacation to Germany and drive your car on the Autobahn and perhaps Nürburgring nod[1].gif
- Have to wait for return shipping. This is the one negative. I was lucky enough to get my car in three weeks but others have waited two months. BMW covers the lease payment where you don't have your car.
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