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First time bespoke with tailor in Berkeley, CA - Page 5

post #61 of 119
2/8/12 at 12:44pm
I just stopped by and talked to Ellie and her partner. Their custom process will be made-to-measure and done by others. Unless, of course, she has made separate arrangements with a particular client.

I will say this, Ellie is quite talented and will knock herself out to get something right. Her partner (husband?) is fairly sophisticated in the conversations I've had with him.

Good thing I went in as I'd left a pair of Tommy Nutter trousers there quite a while ago. These particular pants are rather colorful and might quality under F. Corbera's 'Happy Pants' thread.
Edited by RSS - 2/8/12 at 4:02pm
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post #62 of 119
2/8/12 at 1:03pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the clarification, RSS. Makes me rethink if I want to spend that kind of coin...did she have any examples of suits she's done?
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post #63 of 119
2/8/12 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanComposition View Post

Thanks for the clarification, RSS. Makes me rethink if I want to spend that kind of coin...did she have any examples of suits she's done?
They were fairly busy so I didn't ask to see examples. As I'm not a M2M man myself, I didn't feel it appropriate to take their time.
Edited by RSS - 2/8/12 at 3:40pm
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post #64 of 119
2/8/12 at 2:26pm
The two main things that MTM can offer as potential improvements over RTW are (1) feature individualization (fabrics, pockets, etc.) and (2) sizing deviations from the factory stock pattern reflecting (a) the capabilities of the factory and (b) how much the retailer is willing to pay.

The possibilities for individualized changes sounds pretty good, but their success beyond mere chance relies entirely on how exactly the way that the retailer measures corresponds to the way the factory will produce a result. This, in turn, requires stability at both ends of the process and a track record over time from which the retailer has derived their particular understanding of how their orders are executed.

An old haberdashery with a capable alterations tailor, for example, that, oh, has sold Oxxford (or Samuelsohn, or Southwick, etc.) fo years and years probably has this down.

A clusterfuck becomes more likely when this track record does not exist. It becomes nearly certain, based on what I've seen, with MTM tailored clothes made from self-measurements (people have better luck with shirts) or measued by that class of disposable salesmen who haunt many stores.

I share these observations derived fron my years getting Brioni and Oxford MTM from established Boston shops. Even then, I ended up ditching nearly all that for bespoke clothes.
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post #65 of 119
2/8/12 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

a capable alterations tailor, for example, that, oh, has sold Oxxford (or Samuelsohn, or Southwick, etc.) fo years and years probably has this down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm a Playa by Too Short 
Tellin' stories 'bout rags to riches
'bout a pimp named Shorty from the Oakland set
Been mackin' fo' years 'n ain't fell of yet
So if you ever see me rollin' in my drop top caddy
Throw a peace sign and say hey pimp daddy!

Is the elided "r" a mere coincidence? Moi, je ne suis pas certain....
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post #66 of 119
2/8/12 at 3:22pm
Non-rhotic is where it's at.
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post #67 of 119
2/8/12 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

I share these observations derived fron my years getting Brioni and Oxford MTM from established Boston shops. Even then, I ended up ditching nearly all that for bespoke clothes.
I'll ask as inquiring minds will want to know. Has it been on eBay yet?
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post #68 of 119
2/8/12 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSS View Post

I'll ask as inquiring minds will want to know. Has it been on eBay yet?

All to Keezer's, and the resulting checks to a local do-gooder non-profit.

This way, I've successfully avoided SF members having denounced my old Louis stuff as fakes.

What do you do?
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post #69 of 119
2/8/12 at 3:54pm
I have my old A&S denounced as fakes. It provides for amusing moments.

Typically -- but not always as you know -- mine goes to an Episcopal Church charity shop. I take write offs based on comps.
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post #70 of 119
2/8/12 at 3:59pm
Thread Starter 
Based on your description, B, would NSM be classed as MTM?
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post #71 of 119
2/8/12 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanComposition View Post

Based on your description, B, would NSM be classed as MTM?

This is an excellent question. I will later tonight when I have a moment.
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post #72 of 119
2/8/12 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanComposition View Post

Based on your description, B, would NSM be classed as MTM?
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

This is an excellent question. I will later tonight when I have a moment.

Consider including a section Rubinacci in your response. peepwall[1].gif
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post #73 of 119
2/8/12 at 5:22pm

Hi all,

 

I'm relatively new to this board, but not new to the world of MTM or bespoke clothing.

 

RE Women tailors:

 

There are several women working on Savile Row now, although, this is relatively recent. Since "promotions" in those houses tend to take so long, it'll likely be a while there are significant numbers of women rated as cutters there.

 

That said, in Eastern Europe there is a long tradition of both male and female mens bespoke tailors. In Imperial Russia, the staff of military haberdashers and outfitters for officers were frequently women.

 

RE the difference between bespoke and MTM:

 

From the insider's perspective difference between bespoke and MTM is often dictated by the need to please the client.

 

The cutting of an individual pattern, unique to the client, is certainly an important component of the bespoke process, but is by no means everything.  Savile Row houses often cite one measuring and three fittings as the benchmark for true bespoke. However, as was noted, A&S trained tailors are known for being able to do a suit in one fitting and it would behoove to ever say that A&S quality work isn't true bespoke. So, clearly there are grey areas.

 

The bottom line is, many clients don't have the patience to wait six months nor do they have the luxury being able to give the cutter four appointments, particularly in this age of globalization and online tailoring. (As my grandfather used to say, "Business is business. Only a schmuck would turn away a commission because the client is a busy man!"). This same sentiment (the need to eat, pay the rent, and keep a roof over ones head) is why bespoke tailors so often do work that falls anywhere on the spectrum from bespoke, to "bespoke", to MTM.

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post #74 of 119
2/8/12 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

All to Keezer's, and the resulting checks to a local do-gooder non-profit.

 

Ah, Keezer's. That was one of my go-tos when I lived in Cambridge.

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post #75 of 119
2/8/12 at 11:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by F. Corbera View Post

The two main things that MTM can offer as potential improvements over RTW are (1) feature individualization (fabrics, pockets, etc.) and (2) sizing deviations from the factory stock pattern reflecting (a) the capabilities of the factory and (b) how much the retailer is willing to pay.
The possibilities for individualized changes sounds pretty good, but their success beyond mere chance relies entirely on how exactly the way that the retailer measures corresponds to the way the factory will produce a result. This, in turn, requires stability at both ends of the process and a track record over time from which the retailer has derived their particular understanding of how their orders are executed.
An old haberdashery with a capable alterations tailor, for example, that, oh, has sold Oxxford (or Samuelsohn, or Southwick, etc.) fo years and years probably has this down.
A clusterfuck becomes more likely when this track record does not exist. It becomes nearly certain, based on what I've seen, with MTM tailored clothes made from self-measurements (people have better luck with shirts) or measued by that class of disposable salesmen who haunt many stores.
I share these observations derived fron my years getting Brioni and Oxford MTM from established Boston shops. Even then, I ended up ditching nearly all that for bespoke clothes.

It even happens where a shop does it's own MTM, as in the case of Chipp, now Winston tailors, who
managed to screw-up a suit for me essentially based on their own RTW model.
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