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Formula 1 - F1 - Current Season Discussion - Page 37

post #541 of 1157
It would appear that someone is feeling a bit emboldened...
Quote:
Red Bull team orders row: Vettel says he would probably do it again

By Jonathan Noble and Matt Beer Thursday, April 11th 2013, 09:19 GMT

Sebastian Vettel says he would probably disregard team orders and pass Mark Webber again if the Malaysian Grand Prix situation was repeated, as he does not believe the Australian deserved victory.

Despite apologising to the Red Bull team for his decision to contravene its 'multi 21' hold position request and overtake Webber in a fierce late-race battle, Vettel told reporters including AUTOSPORT in China on Thursday that Webber had not assisted him in the past and was not entitled to the Sepang win.

Vettel argued that he had misunderstood the team's message, yet admitted that even if he had comprehended, his actions would likely not have changed.

Asked if he would do the same again, Vettel replied: "I am not sure I can give you a proper answer because in the moment it might be different, but I would probably do the same.

"Had I understood the message and had I thought about it, reflected on it, thought what the team wanted to do, to leave Mark in first place and me finishing second... I think I would have thought about it and I would probably have done the same thing.

"He didn't deserve it.

"There is quite a conflict, because on the one hand I am the kind of guy who respects team decisions and the other hand, probably Mark is not the one who deserved it at the time."

Vettel and Webber have long had a fractious relationship, and the reigning world champion intimated that their history impacted on his Malaysian GP actions.

"I never had support from his side," Vettel said. "I have a lot of support from the team, and the team has supported both of us the same way.

"But in terms of the relationship to Mark, I respect him a lot as a racing driver, but I think there was more than one occasion in the past where he could have helped the team and he didn't."

Despite not regretting his actions, Vettel said he stood by his decision to apologise to Red Bull.

"I was racing, and as a racing driver I was solely focused on winning the race and I got a call on the radio, which I heard, but I didn't understand at the time," he said.

"I should have understood, that is why I apologised to the team - because in my action I put myself above the team. Whether you believe me or not is up to you.

But he shrugged off suggestions that he should have received a formal punishment from Red Bull.

"Maybe it is a little bit of a dreamland that you all live in, but what do you expect to happen?" said Vettel. "Make a suggestion!"
post #542 of 1157
Emboldened? He has no idea what he's talking about. After the race, he's all sheepish. Big press release about his apologizing to the team. Now he'd do it again? Why apologize if you don't regret taking the win? Why apologize for something you intend to repeat if given the opportunity? He sounds like a twat. At least have the balls to stand by your decision from the outset.
post #543 of 1157
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22109935
Quote:
Red Bull will reduce the use of team orders after owner Dietrich Mateschitz intervened in the Sebastian Vettel row.
Mateschitz has agreed with principal Christian Horner that Red Bull will change how they use the orders.
Horner said: "I had discussions with Dietrich and we agreed that Red Bull is not a fan of team orders.
"Therefore we will not impose team orders at the end of a race. However, we expect the drivers to act on the information they have from the team."

Vettel has apologised for disregarding an order not to pass team-mate Mark Webber to win in Malaysia last month, but has said he would "probably" do the same again.
Horner visited Mateschitz in Austria last Thursday where they discussed the situation.

Mateschitz is opposed to team orders on principle and wants to see the drivers race, as befits Red Bull's sporting philosophy.
But Horner said he understood the complications in F1, where teams are often managing problems such as rapidly degrading tyres, or concerns over reliability
post #544 of 1157
Thread Starter 
Wow. Great post butch, that is some stirring shit right there.

Wow. I thought Alonso was number one asshole. He's officially number two now. Vettel is an epic prick.

To infra's post. Unbelievable. Horner has no power whatsoever. Interesting how the two messages sync up. On the one hand we have a driver who says he will not respect team orders, and then we have a team principal who is now no longer able to give such orders. We know who's running this team. We knew it was the driver before, but it's pretty much official now.

I would quit. It's obvious this has nothing to do with the team's philosophy, it has to do with the owners of the team giving a certain driver carte Blanche. a team principle with balls would not accept this form of interference.
post #545 of 1157
I don't know, I mean Mclaren don't have team orders unless it gets sticky towards the end of the season.
Their only rule is don't take each other off, which has worked mostly.

Red Bull have painted themselves into a corner by favouring Vettel, forcing Webber to obey team orders in the past.
Now they don't have team orders how much resentment is sitting there waiting to boil over? I can see some spicy races ahead with Webber having a fuck it attitude and being happy to take Vettel out if he pushes it too far...
post #546 of 1157
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

Wow. Great post butch, that is some stirring shit right there.

Wow. I thought Alonso was number one asshole. He's officially number two now. Vettel is an epic prick.

To infra's post. Unbelievable. Horner has no power whatsoever. Interesting how the two messages sync up. On the one hand we have a driver who says he will not respect team orders, and then we have a team principal who is now no longer able to give such orders. We know who's running this team. We knew it was the driver before, but it's pretty much official noI would quit. It's obvious this has nothing to do with the team's philosophy, it has to do with the owners of the team giving a certain driver carte Blanche. a team principle with balls would not accept this form of interferenceerence.

I'm actually more suprised it's only materialized now since most team principals don't outright own the teams they run - think Martin Whitmarsh, Eric Boullier, Domenicalli, etc. Apart from Peter Sauber and Frank Williams (both of whom are prepping their succession) I can't think of a team principal that also owns their team. Don't know why Christian Horner looks so weak compared to all of them. Nonetheless, they've won the last 3 championships.
post #547 of 1157
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joffrey View Post

I'm actually more suprised it's only materialized now since most team principals don't outright own the teams they run - think Martin Whitmarsh, Eric Boullier, Domenicalli, etc. Apart from Peter Sauber and Frank Williams (both of whom are prepping their succession) I can't think of a team principal that also owns their team. Don't know why Christian Horner looks so weak compared to all of them. Nonetheless, they've won the last 3 championships.

Are you serious? He looks weak because his lead driver just took a shit on him and no action was taken.
post #548 of 1157
No, he looks weak because the owner of the team publicly changed team policy and essentially backed Vettel. Ron Dennis doesn't do that to Martin Whitmarsh. Domenicali does actually get undermined by Montezemolo on occasion, but not on anything like this.

Mateschitz has done two great things: Provide a fat budget. Hire Adrian Newey and let him do his thing. But he also lets Helmut Marko get away with his bullshit which destabilizes the team from the inside. But having an Adrian Newey car masks a number of sins...
post #549 of 1157
Thread Starter 
Butch, I get your point but it's chicken and egg. Who actually started the destabilization? Vettel or Marko, matters not. It's on Horner to hold his ground and because everyone knows they can push him around, they do... and there you go, a wet noodle is born. All other team principals have had to make awkward and public compromises, but this is a new thing. A guy blew him off in the car, then the team owner changed the rules Horner established to suit the driver.

Now he's out doing interviews saying that he would do the same thing again. Total undermining.

Mark webber: "he'll get protection" - bang on

You could see the trend developing within the team, I always found it strange how Vettel insisted on setting fastest laps at the end of the race. One day he's going to break the car because of it, then what? As a team principle you would cut that shit out real quick. Horner didn't.

In the end, Christian Horner is the team principle precisely because he's weaksauce. A strong administrator could not function within this team.
post #550 of 1157
I doubted Horner, but I think he makes the most of the cards he's been dealt. He could go somewhere else and have absolute say, but to what end? The weaksauce is served up by Mateschitz IMO.

Now, qualifying. Somewhat surprised that so many chose the option tire for Q3. I guess they don't quite believe that starting position is less important now than in the past. We'll see!
post #551 of 1157
Also, re Webber's qualifying: It seems like an extreme approach to avoiding team orders, but I guess Red Bull didn't want to take any chances. smile.gif
post #552 of 1157

well done, Alonso. well deserved win. hamilton did a good job fending vettel off on the last lap. 

post #553 of 1157
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliq View Post

Thor starring as James Hunt? yep, F1 needs the US more than the US needs F1.

Räikkönen enter some race with name register James Hunt, Räikkönen is rigolo! icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #554 of 1157
Quote:
Originally Posted by hws View Post


Räikkönen enter some race with name register James Hunt, Räikkönen is rigolo! icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

 

he had the James Hunt helmet in last year's Monaco race, iirc

post #555 of 1157
For me was good Mäx Mösley, I not know how is Jean Todt, but Mösley was a special! icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d3_1207044480
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