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Formula 1 - F1 - Current Season Discussion - Page 136

post #2026 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

How so? He didn't do anything different than what happened in Austin.

Difference is, Lewis keeps winning those encounters while it nearly always blows up it Nico's face. I still sort of root for Nico to win the WDC just so someone new gets it, however, I have little admiration for him. His bs in Monaco a few years back then these attempts at being an assertive defender are laughable.
post #2027 of 2329
Thread Starter 
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2016/07/aston-martin-and-red-bull-unveil-the-am-rb-001-hypercar-co-designed-by-adrian-newey/
post #2028 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post



Beautifully apexed.
post #2029 of 2329
I think Hamilton's moves (like in Austin) are a bit different from Rosberg's. Hamilton's moves are on the racing line with Rosberg on the outside...there is no reason Hamilton needs to give Rosberg the racing line and actually Hamilton is right in trying to make the racing line as wide as possible driving Rosberg off the outside. On the other hand, Rosberg is no no where near the racing line and is just driving straight with no attempt to turn into the corner...it is actually driving another car off the track and if they weren't team mates it would be a huge penalty for Rosberg due to safety issues.

Also when Hamilton tries to come back on track Rosberg leaves no room for margin. When Hamilton is defending or is in a battle with Rosberg, Hamilton leaves a tiny margin for Rosberg, but Rosberg leaves no margin at all...that's why they collide like in Spain too.
post #2030 of 2329
The truth is out there...

post #2031 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joffrey View Post

Difference is, Lewis keeps winning those encounters while it nearly always blows up it Nico's face. I still sort of root for Nico to win the WDC just so someone new gets it, however, I have little admiration for him. His bs in Monaco a few years back then these attempts at being an assertive defender are laughable.

Yeah. I've been rooting for Nico this year but it's getting hard to keep it up. Lewis has proven over and over again that he is the better driver, and especially the better wheel-to-wheel racer.
post #2032 of 2329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post

I think Hamilton's moves (like in Austin) are a bit different from Rosberg's. Hamilton's moves are on the racing line with Rosberg on the outside...there is no reason Hamilton needs to give Rosberg the racing line and actually Hamilton is right in trying to make the racing line as wide as possible driving Rosberg off the outside. On the other hand, Rosberg is no no where near the racing line and is just driving straight with no attempt to turn into the corner...it is actually driving another car off the track and if they weren't team mates it would be a huge penalty for Rosberg due to safety issues.

Also when Hamilton tries to come back on track Rosberg leaves no room for margin. When Hamilton is defending or is in a battle with Rosberg, Hamilton leaves a tiny margin for Rosberg, but Rosberg leaves no margin at all...that's why they collide like in Spain too.


Hmmm. COTA, turn 1. That doesn't look like a guy anywhere near the apex to me. Looks like a guy trying to run a guy wide, albeit with more aplomb than Austria. The curb is generally designed to be touched somewhere in the center. Lewis, because he squared off the corner, hit the very tip of the curb.

The difference? Nico corrected and took to where he was forced to go. Lewis did not in Austria.

post #2033 of 2329
No, it's totally different. In Austin the track was wet and it is within the norm for drivers to take a wide line without clipping the apex. Even it was dry, you don't have to take the perfect racing line, and are within your rights to make the racing line as wide as possible. There is no reason for the car on the inside to let the outside car on the racing line, so that is why Nico got squeezed out on the outside. The difference in Austria is that Nico was not on the racing line at all, and it was not a matter of squeezing Lewis off the track on the outside...it was more like going straight into Lewis...if Nico turned into the corner (even if it was a late turn in, that is fine), then squeezed Lewis off the track towards the corner exit, then that would of been totally fine and good racing.
post #2034 of 2329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post

No, it's totally different. In Austin the track was wet and it is within the norm for drivers to take a wide line without clipping the apex. Even it was dry, you don't have to take the perfect racing line, and are within your rights to make the racing line as wide as possible. There is no reason for the car on the inside to let the outside car on the racing line, so that is why Nico got squeezed out on the outside. The difference in Austria is that Nico was not on the racing line at all, and it was not a matter of squeezing Lewis off the track on the outside...it was more like going straight into Lewis...if Nico turned into the corner (even if it was a late turn in, that is fine), then squeezed Lewis off the track towards the corner exit, then that would of been totally fine and good racing.

So what is the gist of your argument here, that Lewis was entitled to bypass the apex because it was wet? And so then even if it's dry, you don't have to "take the perfect racing line", which Nico didn't, so if your statement is true why did he do anything wrong by choosing the line he chose? If there is no reason for a car on the inside line at COTA to let the outside car on the racing line, why is it not ok for Lewis to get squeezed too?

I don't see the difference yet, because neither driver in either COTA or Austria was on the racing line. Nico didn't ram into Lewis, he used inside position and chose his line clumsily. Lewis had the option to follow along side but he demanded the corner also. What Nico did WAS a late turn in, and I don't see why a later squeeze out (COTA) as opposed to an earlier one is somehow acceptable. In both instances drivers are supposed to leave racing room, but it troubles me why Lewis's move was never challenged yet Nico's is.
post #2035 of 2329
Dude. Look at the picture. Rosberg is on a piece of track that no one who didn't crash had been on all weekend, and he's only just begun to turn the wheel toward the apex. He's not squeezing, he's ramming. Lewis wasn't "entitled" at CoTA, he was racing. His explanation was plausible because he started turning toward the apex at something like the normal spot. There's no double standard, Rosberg is just a clumsy racer.
post #2036 of 2329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

Dude. Look at the picture. Rosberg is on a piece of track that no one who didn't crash had been on all weekend, and he's only just begun to turn the wheel toward the apex. He's not squeezing, he's ramming. Lewis wasn't "entitled" at CoTA, he was racing. His explanation was plausible because he started turning toward the apex at something like the normal spot. There's no double standard, Rosberg is just a clumsy racer.


We share the view that it was clumsy. Nico would have won the corner if he had turned into the apex and ran Lewis off a few yards further up the track, like Lewis did to him. There is no rule that you must use the racing line. There is a rule about racing room, and in both instances it was not followed.
post #2037 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

We share the view that it was clumsy. Nico would have won the corner if he had turned into the apex and ran Lewis off a few yards further up the track, like Lewis did to him. There is no rule that you must use the racing line. There is a rule about racing room, and in both instances it was not followed.

I think Nico's move would have been just fine (and actually good racing) if he used a very "wide" line (turning in later than usual) and squeezing Lewis out on the exit (if Lewis decided to try to hang on the outside...which he might not have and instead try to cross lines). Just because you are on the inside, it does not entitle you to drive straight...it just entitles you to take whatever "racing line" you want. The racing line can be wide like the one Lewis took in Austin, especially since it was at the start of the race. Look at all the other cars...some are taking similar lines to Lewis. Now, look at the picture that Sugarbutch posted earlier...you can see how wide the racing line is in general by looking at the dark area in the middle of the track...Nico is totally off the racing line, and he wasn't even attempting to turn or make the racing line when he rammed into Lewis. If they weren't team mates Nico would have definitely got a huge penalty for this.
post #2038 of 2329
I didn't know until I read the news today that Rosberg actually was penalised by the stewards for the crash. It's just the penalty didn't make any difference though, because they added 10sec. to Rosberg's race time which kept him in front of 5th place Ricciardo anyway...so Rosberg remains in 4th.
post #2039 of 2329
Thread Starter 
Ugh, Ferrari retain Raikonnen for another season. Vettel is happy about it, of course... nobody to challenge his lap times.
post #2040 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

Ugh, Ferrari retain Raikonnen for another season. Vettel is happy about it, of course... nobody to challenge his lap times.

Yeah I agree. Maybe they didn't have that many choices since drivers like Verstappen are taken. Perez, Hulkenberg, Grojean, Raikkonen...they seem all about the same so keep what they already got.
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