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Formula 1 - F1 - Current Season Discussion - Page 128

post #1906 of 2329
By that logic, as soon as the leader moves to the left or the right, the following car would be obliged to back out, no matter how much room there is to pass. The reason Rosberg is unambiguously at fault is that this occurred before the braking area. Had Hamilton dived down the inside on the brakes, not getting any overlap until Rosberg was turning in toward the apex, Hamilton would be Kvyat at fault.
post #1907 of 2329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

By that logic, as soon as the leader moves to the left or the right, the following car would be obliged to back out, no matter how much room there is to pass. The reason Rosberg is unambiguously at fault is that this occurred before the braking area. Had Hamilton dived down the inside on the brakes, not getting any overlap until Rosberg was turning in toward the apex, Hamilton would be Kvyat at fault.

Ok then, by your logic was Rosberg entitled to space here? Because by turn exit, we are outside the braking area. He was forced off the track or into a crash. Isn't this exactly what he did to Hamilton?

Or was Hamilton entitled to defend his lead?

post #1908 of 2329
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

Thanks, I couldn't find that reg.

So it's vague "may use the full width of the track during his first move". Once you start a move, as the leader, are you entitled to complete it? Does this apply towards STARTING a move while a driver has this significant portion?

It's not clear cut. As a lead, I would feel entitled to complete my defense once I was sure nobody had a "significant portion". If the other driver stuck a nose in, I feel entitled to shut the door. You need to be along side to claim the position, and Hamilton was not.


What is not clear cut about the last sentence of that regulation and this picture?

post #1909 of 2329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot View Post

What is not clear cut about the last sentence of that regulation and this picture?


Because the reg is not one sentence and the moment is not one screenshot.

Rosberg started his move well before Hamilton got a nose in, is he entitled to complete the move? In position, its not clear and the reg doesn't specify.
post #1910 of 2329
There's nothing in the regulations about starting a move. It's also impossible to write a rule which encompasses every conceivable scenario. And it's fine to believe that Rosberg was in the right or Hamilton was in the wrong. But it's not what this rule says.

Hamilton probably fell afoul of this same rule in Austin. But, it was the first corner of the race, the wet conditions gave plausible deniability, Rosberg wasn't hit, and they're on the same team. Who was going to complain? A crash will always invite closer scrutiny.

Ultimately, the "one move" rule creates as many problems as it solves. Before Schumacher's tactics inspired the ruling, it was the custom not to block. Except in the cases where the guy in front *really* didn't want to give up the position. It's all gray area, despite the attempts to set up binary conditions for decision making. Still:
Quote:
if any part of the front wing of the car attempting to pass is alongside the rear wheel of the car in front this will be deemed to be a ‘significant portion’

post #1911 of 2329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

There's nothing in the regulations about starting a move. It's also impossible to write a rule which encompasses every conceivable scenario. And it's fine to believe that Rosberg was in the right or Hamilton was in the wrong. But it's not what this rule says.

Hamilton probably fell afoul of this same rule in Austin. But, it was the first corner of the race, the wet conditions gave plausible deniability, Rosberg wasn't hit, and they're on the same team. Who was going to complain? A crash will always invite closer scrutiny.

Ultimately, the "one move" rule creates as many problems as it solves. Before Schumacher's tactics inspired the ruling, it was the custom not to block. Except in the cases where the guy in front *really* didn't want to give up the position. It's all gray area, despite the attempts to set up binary conditions for decision making. Still:


Rosberg wasn't hit because he pulled out and lost 3 places. Hamilton put him in a position to crash and he blinked. He could have easily claimed his space and allowed the crash to happen.


Moving across track reminds me of this one smile.gif



In my view, if you are going to allow only one blocking move, then you are entitled to complete it IF you start it without anyone on your wheel well. You can't neuter out track position from racing. The purpose of a block is to deny space, so as the driver following it's up to you to find another way around.
post #1912 of 2329
That's not unreasonable. It's also not the rule. smile.gif

The clip above is funny and highlights how drivers will find new ways to drive beyond previous rules considerations.
post #1913 of 2329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

That's not unreasonable. It's also not the rule. smile.gif

The clip above is funny and highlights how drivers will find new ways to drive beyond previous rules considerations.

The rule is vague, but you can't make it 50 pages long either.

The thing that's gotten out of control in the last 5 years is the blue flag. Come on already. Palmer was given a blue flag in Barca and it took Ricciardo almost 2 laps to pass, and not because he was blocked. You can't make a guy fighting for his career lose 5 seconds by pulling over and waiting for a car at a similar pace to go by.

Kill the blue flag altogether. Lets get back to the days of De Chesaris

post #1914 of 2329
Definitely agree about the blue flags. Everyone's in the race, so they should have to race everyone even if they are a lap down. The lapped cars in the old days actually influenced the race and it was fun to watch how some off-circuit relationships played on-track. If the leaders had a bad relationship with the lapped cars, they would actually make it very difficult to pass.

Rosberg/Hamilton crash: I think Rosberg should have got a penalty as it is clear he broke the rules. Blocking is when you place your car in front of the other car (behind)...you can block to the left, right, center as long as you are blocking the car BEHIND. Once any part of the other car is along side, it is not blocking anymore...it is running the other car off the road. Running the other car off the road was made illegal and that's why we have this rule.

Plus, the fact that Rosberg felt the need to block THAT far to the right (giving absolutely no space) tells us that Rosberg knew Hamilton was coming through on that side. It was not really a blocking move to make Hamilton pass on the outside anymore. Rosberg had the right to block on that side, but as long as he did it BEFORE Hamilton got there...in other words, he closed the door too late and usually when you close the door too late the driver closing the door get's the penalty (we have seen this numerous times).

IMO this highlights the huge advantage Rosberg has over Hamilton this season. Rosberg knows that the worse case scenario is that they both crash and Hamilton gains no points on him. I think this is why Rosberg dived straight on the outside of turn-1 at the start and Hamlton didn't challenge him AT ALL in fear of a collision scenario. Rosberg can do this all season long and Hamilton will have to back out in a chicken race.
post #1915 of 2329
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post

The lapped cars in the old days actually influenced the race and it was fun to watch how some off-circuit relationships played on-track. If the leaders had a bad relationship with the lapped cars, they would actually make it very difficult to pass

This. Let guys show their cards on track.
Edited by idfnl - 5/19/16 at 7:26pm
post #1916 of 2329
Crazy F3 crash

http://youtu.be/BOvt8OlfX4E
Edited by Pilot - 5/21/16 at 12:00pm
post #1917 of 2329
Holy shit that crash was insane.
post #1918 of 2329
Thread Starter 
If he wants to "keep it for myself" then why is he out interviewing about it?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124408

He seems really bitter, and is talking like a guy that may not make it thru the season. Perhaps Alex Lynn will see the seat before long.
post #1919 of 2329
Thread Starter 
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/36393472

I like Button, and he's still quick and experienced, buy I wonder why any team would want him in a seat. Same goes for Massa and Kimi. It's time for a purge.
post #1920 of 2329
Hard to disagree...
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