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Formula 1 - F1 - Current Season Discussion - Page 112

post #1666 of 2303

post #1667 of 2303
Thread Starter 
Leadership is overrated. Partnerships are more valuable because interests are aligned.

Leadership is a dominant construct and it's one reason why F1 is lame right now, that slimeball Bernie pretends he could cut thru it, but he'd do it for his own self interest. It's the same reason you see the wealth gap in America increasing rapidly.

Bernie is not and has never been a leader. He's a slimeball that has enriched himself and created a oligopoly of F1 in the process to enrich a few teams. And because of the vote structure it's rigged, making it easy for guys like Bernie and Blatter to look like leaders, he survives, but the sport can't compete.

In this respect, the NFL is a much better model since teams share in revenue equally and can build their talent. It makes for a more competitive sport. Watch DTM, the guy that won last week can qualify 20th the next week. That's a sport balanced on a partnership with BMW, Merc and Audi. And it's fun to watch.
post #1668 of 2303
I don't think it's the system that's superior (partnerships vs dictatorship-style)...you can have a lousy partnership as well as a lousy leader. You can also have a great partnership or a great leader. I'm not saying having a strong leader is the perfect system, but it certainly helps. Having a good democratic system is less-risky, but not necessarily superior.

Also, yes DTM is much more fun to watch for a racing fan, but success-wise, F1 is far superior. DTM is only for a niche audience (mainly Europe), while F1 is is global and rivals the Olympics. F1 has many flaws due to the deals Bernie made (and we complain about them here too) but he did deliver strong results and the sport has been one of the top sports in the world for a long time now.
post #1669 of 2303
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post

I don't think it's the system that's superior (partnerships vs dictatorship-style)...you can have a lousy partnership as well as a lousy leader. You can also have a great partnership or a great leader. I'm not saying having a strong leader is the perfect system, but it certainly helps. Having a good democratic system is less-risky, but not necessarily superior.

Also, yes DTM is much more fun to watch for a racing fan, but success-wise, F1 is far superior. DTM is only for a niche audience (mainly Europe), while F1 is is global and rivals the Olympics. F1 has many flaws due to the deals Bernie made (and we complain about them here too) but he did deliver strong results and the sport has been one of the top sports in the world for a long time now.

I think my points survive. DTM is more fun because it's more fun. F1 is global, yet currently uninteresting save for narrow moments and small battles.

"Leaders" are too often given credit for things they have little to do with. If Jean Todt or someone else was the head of F1 thru the Bernie era, I don't see it would have ended up much different. Senna - Prost did for F1 what Bird - Magic Johnson did for the NBA.

My interest (in what has been my favorite sport for many years) wains with every race, I don't even watch quali anymore. MotoGP and DTM, even the WRC is more interesting. F1 has reaped what it's sewn: unable to share it's wealth, a few dominant teams rule and now even some of them (Macca) can't get a title sponsor. Fuck man, even Moto3 is more fun to watch, at Philip Island this morning you had 6 guys at the line fighting for the win.
post #1670 of 2303
I don't know if any of the things you've described really have much do with the leadership system though (dictatorship vs democracy). To me, it sounds like you are complaining more about the current rules which is not under Bernie's control (directly), and also the current dominance of Mercedes...which really is not much different than the Senna/Prost era. F1 will never be like DTM or MotoGP and it never was even when it was exciting. The teams/cars were never close like we see in some of the other series. Also if you are arguing that DTM and MotoGP are better because the leadership is democratic, you have to keep in mind F1 is still the #1 motorsports series by a big margin (not even close). The racing itself is much better in other series, but that is more about the rules and not so much about the actual leadership IMO.
post #1671 of 2303
Thread Starter 
My overall point was that leadership is overrated, and that Bernie gets credit for a lot of things that were dumb luck.
post #1672 of 2303

I don't necessarily disagree with his notion that benevolent dictatorship is better than democracy for motor racing. CART was a democracy, and it was unsustainable. Where Bernie fucked up was selling FOM to Kirch. Once it was an investment from which a premium return was expected, the flexibility to make decisions which benefitted the sport at the expense of the bottom line were no longer possible.

 

The real villain in all of this is... Max Mosley. Essentially giving away the rights to Bernie was malpractice.

post #1673 of 2303
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

I don't necessarily disagree with his notion that benevolent dictatorship is better than democracy for motor racing. CART was a democracy, and it was unsustainable. Where Bernie fucked up was selling FOM to Kirch. Once it was an investment from which a premium return was expected, the flexibility to make decisions which benefitted the sport at the expense of the bottom line were no longer possible.

The real villain in all of this is... Max Mosley. Essentially giving away the rights to Bernie was malpractice.

And why did Bernie do that? Self interest. My point exactly. And so in this instance was Mosley the benevolent dictator?
post #1674 of 2303
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post

I don't necessarily disagree with his notion that benevolent dictatorship is better than democracy for motor racing. CART was a democracy, and it was unsustainable. Where Bernie fucked up was selling FOM to Kirch. Once it was an investment from which a premium return was expected, the flexibility to make decisions which benefitted the sport at the expense of the bottom line were no longer possible.

The real villain in all of this is... Max Mosley. Essentially giving away the rights to Bernie was malpractice.

You said it better than I. When I was posting I had CART in my mind as a democratic example, as I was a fan of CART back in the day.
post #1675 of 2303
Quote:
Originally Posted by idfnl View Post

And why did Bernie do that? Self interest. My point exactly. And so in this instance was Mosley the benevolent dictator?

You have to keep in mind that even in a democracy there is self interest involved. It serves the self interests of the majority...which sounds like a good thing, but it is not necessarily. Not always, but usually, the majority consists of the losers (that's why they are the majority), and the winners only make up a small group (that's why they are winners). So in a democracy, you basically have a bunch of losers dictating policy, vision, and making the decisions if they can all agree in the first place.

Translate that into F1 and imagine if it was a democracy...you have a bunch of loser teams which make up the majority and a few winning teams that are the minority. The vision and policy will serve more the self interest of the losing teams, therefore making F1 as cheap as possible with maximum return on investment. It would be in the self interests of all the loser teams to be able to spend only a little and gain an equal pie of the revenue, which would make the quality of the grid virtually the same as lower formula series.

Sure there are benefits to a democracy, like you can change the leadership, but democracy in itself is not necessarily superior to a dictatorship.
post #1676 of 2303
8-12 inches of rain is expected this weekend in Austin. Should be fun...
post #1677 of 2303

With Vettel penalized, it looks even more likely that Hamilton will clinch this weekend. Those hoping to keep the championship open should pray for changing conditions (which seem to be LH's biggest weakness...)

post #1678 of 2303
Went to COTA today in the pouring rain. Facility was completely unprepared. There were a lot of very annoyed ticket holders with the way everything was handled. Weather should be better tomorrow but Q is now at 9am.
post #1679 of 2303

Looks like a total shitshow. Nothing like waiting around in the rain for three hours only to be told to come back at 9 am if you want to see quali.

post #1680 of 2303
I seriously considered making the trip this year; glad I didn't.
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