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Best Bespoke tailoring in New York City - Page 6

post #76 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post

When it comes to finishing and handwork, it is always available, but you are not going to pay $2,000 for it. Many of my suits have lapped everything and bar tacking all over like the Italian tailors do without request, but it is more money for this. So to say "styling" is bland I don't really agree fully with the statement. I think a lot of people that go to him don't know the difference and don't request it, but are rather requesting a "price point" where bland finishing fits in easier.
Another thing, which makes it hard to judge Frank's work fairly is the fact that he doesn't really have a house silhouette and the variations that you see here and there are more based on the clients specifications than Frank's firm hand. I think people are used to seeing his work on NYR because he has photographed so much of it. In actuality what I see on NYR is very different than most of the folks I meet going to see Frank.
I also don't think it is a coincidence how many other tailor's work Frank is constantly adjusting and fixing for a lot of people. That's a lot of trust people have in his work whether he is making them things from scratch or not.

I personally really dig what he does for you.

Any chance you could take some photographs of the handwork in your coats?

The fineness of the stitching I've seen in other photographs has been slightly underwhelming.
post #77 of 137
I still like Ercole's, warts and all. I hear the concerns, and I share some of them (although my bespoke experience is fairly limited, with only four suits from Frank.) I'm a fairly difficult fit, and Frank is just now figuring out how best to fit me. The button point seems to always pulI for some reason (and I see this in others' posted fits as well), the chest gapes the tiniest bit, the roll isn't as luxurious and relaxed as I've seen in, say, Italian tailoring, and sometimes the sewing isn't as finessed as it could be (other times it is...) But he always tries a different approach and attempts to fix the problem in the next commission. I think he's probably redrawn and cut my pattern four times over by now...satisfied.gif

The thing that sets Frank & Ercole apart is that they excel at building relationships with their clients—something that doesn't seem to really exist anymore. I've sat in the chairs on a Saturday afternoon and chatted with Frank and other clients about fabrics and fit, been offered espresso in the shop, and gone out to lunch in the hood with Frank (and I know NYR and others have as well). I've met his wife and children, and the crew in the back. How often do you directly know where your money is going?

Because of that, I'm probably more flexible on the fit issues than I normally would be (although I've had my points of frustration...) When it comes down to it, this isn't just a "service" relationship; I feel a little bit like Frank is a friend. Ultimately, I guess I just trust that it will all get sorted out in the end.
post #78 of 137

NYR,

 

I took a look at your pic, and here is my initial take. I’d still like to throw out the caveat that I mentioned earlier, i.e. the ‘sum being greater than the parts.” I don’t mean that as a cop-out, but I genuinely believe that small incremental changes do substantially rework the look and feel of a garment.

 

I like your suit, and I’d say my Ercole suit looks very similar (fwiw, I don’t think my style is any more conservative than yours.) I wear and enjoy it often, but there are differences. So, here goes:

 

  1. Shoulders: Have a less stylized pagoda look to them, and are either flat/natural, or with a strong rope. Both those styles allow for a shoulder that looks a bit more organic and less ‘fixed-in-place’. I realize this makes little sense, but that’s really how I think about it.
  2. Taper: This is a big one. The taper offered by the high-priced tailors is nicer and more elegant. Frank’s taper almost looks a bit formulaic to me (i.e. let’s take away 0.x inches every 2 inches we move down the coat). The chest-to-waist taper on my other coats seems to more naturally contour and caress the natural outline of the torso. As I mentioned, my suit closely mimics yours, and I don’t really like the pinched silhouette coupled with the somewhat wide skirt.
  3. Trousers: Overall leaner than the Ercole, without being Ambrosi tight. A tighter and higher rise, with a more prominent taper from top-to-bottom. Not a big deal – I think Frank cuts nice trousers as well.

 

I realize that your coat is also pulling at the front, but I’m sure that Frank can fix that easily. I’ve found him to be a good fitter.

 

Ultimately, the silhouette of the other coats look like finished, fluid sculptures, while with Ercole’s coats, I think you can still sometimes tell that the artist started the project from a solid, rectangular chunk of rock.

 

I hope this better explains my thinking. I’m afraid I’m not nearly as eloquent as Manton or Foo in describing edits.

 

ET

post #79 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maquis View Post

I still like Ercole's, warts and all. I hear the concerns, and I share some of them (although my bespoke experience is fairly limited, with only four suits from Frank.) I'm a fairly difficult fit, and Frank is just now figuring out how best to fit me. The button point seems to always pulI for some reason (and I see this in others' posted fits as well), the chest gapes the tiniest bit, the roll isn't as luxurious and relaxed as I've seen in, say, Italian tailoring, and sometimes the sewing isn't as finessed as it could be (other times it is...) But he always tries a different approach and attempts to fix the problem in the next commission. I think he's probably redrawn and cut my pattern four times over by now...satisfied.gif
The thing that sets Frank & Ercole apart is that they excel at building relationships with their clients—something that doesn't seem to really exist anymore. I've sat in the chairs on a Saturday afternoon and chatted with Frank and other clients about fabrics and fit, been offered espresso in the shop, and gone out to lunch in the hood with Frank (and I know NYR and others have as well). I've met his wife and children, and the crew in the back. How often do you directly know where your money is going?
Because of that, I'm probably more flexible on the fit issues than I normally would be (although I've had my points of frustration...) When it comes down to it, this isn't just a "service" relationship; I feel a little bit like Frank is a friend. Ultimately, I guess I just trust that it will all get sorted out in the end.

confused.gif
post #80 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfluous View Post

33cd55f5.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley View Post

NYR,
  1. Shoulders: Have a less stylized pagoda look to them, and are either flat/natural, or with a strong rope. Both those styles allow for a shoulder that looks a bit more organic and less ‘fixed-in-place’. I realize this makes little sense, but that’s really how I think about it.
  2. Taper: This is a big one. The taper offered by the high-priced tailors is nicer and more elegant. Frank’s taper almost looks a bit formulaic to me (i.e. let’s take away 0.x inches every 2 inches we move down the coat). The chest-to-waist taper on my other coats seems to more naturally contour and caress the natural outline of the torso. As I mentioned, my suit closely mimics yours, and I don’t really like the pinched silhouette coupled with the somewhat wide skirt.
  3. Trousers: Overall leaner than the Ercole, without being Ambrosi tight. A tighter and higher rise, with a more prominent taper from top-to-bottom. Not a big deal – I think Frank cuts nice trousers as well.

This.

I noticed that something looked off on NYR's suit with the bottom half, but couldn't articulate it . Well said.
post #81 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by quar View Post

I personally really dig what he does for you.
Any chance you could take some photographs of the handwork in your coats?
The fineness of the stitching I've seen in other photographs has been slightly underwhelming.

Just some photos from the "official" site.

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Edited by patrickBOOTH - 10/10/12 at 7:25am
post #82 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley View Post

NYR,

I took a look at your pic, and here is my initial take. I’d still like to throw out the caveat that I mentioned earlier, i.e. the ‘sum being greater than the parts.” I don’t mean that as a cop-out, but I genuinely believe that small incremental changes do substantially rework the look and feel of a garment.

I like your suit, and I’d say my Ercole suit looks very similar (fwiw, I don’t think my style is any more conservative than yours.) I wear and enjoy it often, but there are differences. So, here goes:
  1. Shoulders: Have a less stylized pagoda look to them, and are either flat/natural, or with a strong rope. Both those styles allow for a shoulder that looks a bit more organic and less ‘fixed-in-place’. I realize this makes little sense, but that’s really how I think about it.
  2. Taper: This is a big one. The taper offered by the high-priced tailors is nicer and more elegant. Frank’s taper almost looks a bit formulaic to me (i.e. let’s take away 0.x inches every 2 inches we move down the coat). The chest-to-waist taper on my other coats seems to more naturally contour and caress the natural outline of the torso. As I mentioned, my suit closely mimics yours, and I don’t really like the pinched silhouette coupled with the somewhat wide skirt.
  3. Trousers: Overall leaner than the Ercole, without being Ambrosi tight. A tighter and higher rise, with a more prominent taper from top-to-bottom. Not a big deal – I think Frank cuts nice trousers as well.

I realize that your coat is also pulling at the front, but I’m sure that Frank can fix that easily. I’ve found him to be a good fitter.

Ultimately, the silhouette of the other coats look like finished, fluid sculptures, while with Ercole’s coats, I think you can still sometimes tell that the artist started the project from a solid, rectangular chunk of rock.

I hope this better explains my thinking. I’m afraid I’m not nearly as eloquent as Manton or Foo in describing edits.

ET

I like that; I think it keeps it balanced.
post #83 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by etkl View Post

* * * Nicolosi is (was) * * *

I saw Mr. Nicolosi recently on a bus home.

He is still working, and he says that he is busy.
post #84 of 137
I have yet to see an example from these more expensive tailors. Does anyone have any photos?
post #85 of 137
I'm very happy to hear it.
post #86 of 137
I tried Ercole a few years ago. I would not recommend him - although I really wish I could.

You won't meet a nicer guy who is easier to work with. full stop.

The problem with Ercole is fit. You can quibble about the details (and I will in a minute) but each and every single Ercole jacket I've ever seen or owned suffers from a waist that's bigger than the shoulders. For a lot of guys, that unavoidable but for NYR (and myself) that absolutely should not be the case.

Rob, I'm not trying to be a d-bag and I like your style quite a bit, but this makes it look like you have birthing hips when, in fact, you don't.
IMG_6601.jpg

Frank made me a suit, two sportscoats and two pairs of pants. All of it was uncomfortable - and I told him that every time. As readily available photos will attest, I'm not a tough fit.

When I picked up the third jacket, Frank said, somewhat apologetically, that he'd get it right on the fourth try. I didn't bother.

At that price, I've used Chan and been much, much happier. They delivered something very much to my liking on the second attempt. The handwork - pic sticthing and buttonholes - are very clearly superior. They hand pad the lapels (not that it makes much of a difference) as a matter of course and with no surcharge.

I left my Ercole things back in the old country but, if people are interested, I can take some comparison shots when I'm back in December.

Again, if he can produce something you like, stay with him because he's one of the good guys but in my experience he just wasn't able to deliver. And I tend to think the problems are endemic.
Edited by Cantabrigian - 10/10/12 at 12:44pm
post #87 of 137
Cant- not sure if thats a fair pic to use...that jacket is one of my older ones, and prob one of my least favorite fit wise, PLUS the angle of the pic is too low. I wore it because I thought it was the bet to go with the purple flannel (obviously I was wrong) plus it was rainy and cold...I wonder if the color palate was a bit better on the ensemble, and the angle of the pic was changed, you'd have a different take on the fit of the coat. I'll try to get one like that tonight.

I can't comment on your experiences with Frank, but of course I take your word, I also think that there are plenty of stinkers from higher end tailors as well. Its so subjective, and we haven't seen any pics from these other NY tailors. In fact, I often wonder if they actually exist or if they are some sort of urban legend (I'm kidding of course). And I think the conversation in and of itself is something that can't possibly be objective.

Hope this isn;t taken as an attack, its not, just a furtherance of the discussion, which I think all of us can only benefit from.
post #88 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRanger View Post

Cant- not sure if thats a fair pic to use...that jacket is one of my older ones, and prob one of my least favorite fit wise, PLUS the angle of the pic is too low. I wore it because I thought it was the bet to go with the purple flannel (obviously I was wrong) plus it was rainy and cold...I wonder if the color palate was a bit better on the ensemble, and the angle of the pic was changed, you'd have a different take on the fit of the coat. I'll try to get one like that tonight.
I can't comment on your experiences with Frank, but of course I take your word, I also think that there are plenty of stinkers from higher end tailors as well. Its so subjective, and we haven't seen any pics from these other NY tailors. In fact, I often wonder if they actually exist or if they are some sort of urban legend (I'm kidding of course). And I think the conversation in and of itself is something that can't possibly be objective.
Hope this isn;t taken as an attack, its not, just a furtherance of the discussion, which I think all of us can only benefit from.

I want purple flannel pants.
post #89 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewYorkRanger View Post

Its so subjective, and we haven't seen any pics from these other NY tailors.

So you haven't seen any pics on this forum of Steed (Vox, Slewfoot), Anderson (Manton, whnay, RSS), Rubi (the usual suspects), Solito (Manton), Mina / NSM (several), Raphael (several) etc. etc.? Not to mention the easily available pics of other continental tailors available on Suitorial, Parisian Gentlemen, Permanent Style, etc.? There's no point in being disingenious by implying that none of those tailors have been on display.

I agree with your point that those tailors sometimes bomb as well (its a handmade product, and the tailors are human). I just think the standard output of those tailors is superior to Ercole's.

Cantabrigian perfectly described my issue with Ercole - birther-hips, what Eustace more politely called a pinched waist and wide skirt.
post #90 of 137
Rob,

I want to emphasise that (all evidence to the contrary) I'm not trying to be a dick to you or Frank.

Maybe it is the angle but it's a pretty consistent fault. The brown suit you poasted recently was even worse in that regard. You still look good - like a badass john Keating - but I'd mention it to him. Like I said (and as you well know) he's cool as can be and didn't seem averse to taking any tactful feedback.

Im sure you're right that there are some sucky higher priced NY tailors. I've seen some Corvato things where the pic stitching was like poetry and some things with buttonholes that Indochino would be ashamed of. I've seen one Raphael suit IRL (Manton) and it was awesome. I've seen a bunch of great Nicolosi things in person but SmoothJazz seems to have a way with tailors and there are an equal number of horror stories about that guy.

So I have no idea who is the best tailor in NY is. And even when I still lived there, it was pretty irrelevant to me since I've found better style and better value elsewhere.

I'm a big believer that you don't know how good a tailor is until you've had a problem (and something will always come up) and its been resolved. If you have someone you like and work well with, never let him go. I just shared my experience for the benefit of the guy who is stretching to buy his first bespoke suit.
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