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Are "handmade" shoes handmade? - Page 2

post #16 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerkg View Post

on a side note i cant stand how cordoven looks after it gets creased, anyone feel the same?

I can't stand the look of alligator shoes. Therefore I don't buy them. I prefer cordovan. Everyone wins.

As for this cordoven you speak of, I haven't seen it - I will be sure to keep an eye out.
post #17 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by pebblegrain View Post

Edward Green sucks, stick to Bostonian.
If John Lobbs were stitched by hand they would look like your grandma made them and they would also cost $7000. If you want inferior construction at more expense, I'm sure you can hire someone to hand stitch $7000 shoes for you.
No one agrees with you on the cordovan creasing except for wright, iroh, and reevolving (good company).

May I also recommend Bass their outlet mall siblings.

To read up on Edward Green, go to the source: http://www.edwardgreen.com/flash/index.html

That being said, by far the most complemented shoes I own are my Edward Green Falkirks in pebble grain. I have not worn them a single time without inquiries about them (usually answered by "no, you cannot buy them at Macys".
post #18 of 80
I believe there is a lady shoemaker in Europe ( Florence ? ) That makes some shoes using hand closing to quite a high standard.Such fine closing as in 1840's would be almost impossible today as the tools and materials are no longer avaiilable.Even today some makers use synthetic threads
In their hand welting instead of original natural fibres .
post #19 of 80
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbrown View Post


I can't stand the look of alligator shoes. Therefore I don't buy them. I prefer cordovan. Everyone wins.
As for this cordoven you speak of, I haven't seen it - I will be sure to keep an eye out.


 

Didnt realize you can't misspell anything or be new atound here without getting passive aggressive grandiose replies..

post #20 of 80
Sully,

Does using the synthetic threads have any implications beyond those related to environmental concerns?

Logistical or Practical concerns?
post #21 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerkg View Post

So What makes Edward Green so good? there not even hand made? is it that they get better material than say allen edmonds or alden? or the craftmanship is better..and john Lobb, for 3000-5000 dollars they should be stiching those babies by hand, every thread. on a side note i cant stand how cordoven looks after it gets creased, anyone feel the same?

Based on my ownership experience, you are paying for essentially perfect finishing (something I truly believe AE is incapable of), excellent lining, very even leather that's a bit more durable/scuff-resistant than normal, a tough sole that I'd guesstimate will last 50% longer, and very even, clean lasting that give the pair really impressive symmetry. Whether that's worth ~ $1,000 (give or take) more than AE is pretty much up to you. If not for one factor, it would be worth it to me.

That on factor: my C&J Handgrades seem to be the equal to EG in quality/finishing/durability/detail, yet look nicer and cost significantly less, so I am not much of a fan of EG.

My two pairs of JLs are proving much less durable and well-made than any of my AEs, so either I have duds or JL gives you the detailed finish but not necessarily the durability. I suspect the former is true, but I won't be pursuing Lobbs anytime soon.

As always, your experience will vary.
post #22 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Hey James!! Good to see you here.
I thought I would post a couple of photos I was given permission by the Northampton Shoe Museum to use for educational purposes...
These are known as the Attewell boot and were entirely handsewn in 1840 (1846...date of patent...Elias Howe invents the sewing machine), uppers and outsole.
The tops were Morocco calf, if I recall correctly and I don't know if I ever knew what the vamps were made of.
454

That shape! icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif
post #23 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

Sully,
Does using the synthetic threads have any implications beyond those related to environmental concerns?
Logistical or Practical concerns?

Since you addressed this question to Sully, I would ask you to pardon me if I am butting in...but I doubt any manufacturer or even bespoke maker today uses natural threads to do top stitching. It's all nylon or some form of polyester, AFAIK. You can't even buy machine twist silk anymore.

It is true that some (more and more actually) bespoke makers are using synthetics (dacron/polyester) for inseaming, as well.

The reasons for this are several....first, good linen yarn has been very difficult to find for some time. Linen yarn is made from flax. When handled and prepared correctly the "staple" (the length of each individual fiber in the yarn) can be up to three feet long. Long staple gives strength to linen just as it does to wool. Such quality has not really been available since before WWII. And just last (year) the last of the great Irish linen mills closed their doors. Today, almost all the linen thread or yarn on the market has a staple of less than three inches and closer to 1.5 inches. Some makers are using vintage yarns simply because the contemporary stuff is of such poor quality. But the vintage product is scarce...very scarce.

Additionally, linen is an organic material. Traditionally it was waxed with a pine tar and rosin based concoction that had great anti-bacterial properties. The bacterial and other organisms that live freely and thrive on the surface of the skin especially in moist warm environments such as the inside of a shoe regard untreated linen with the same relish as many of us regard romain hearts.

Short staple linen is available but it cannot compare to the older stuff.And in the absence of that strength, nothing recommends it over other alternatives.

There is no downside to using dacron thread for inseaming aside from the fact that it is a synthetic--a significant downside for some of us but unavoidable, perhaps, at least in the long term. And it is actually stronger less prone to rotting and deterioration and far more readily available.
post #24 of 80
Usually, made by cows.
post #25 of 80
Thank you!
post #26 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

That shape! icon_gu_b_slayer[1].gif

No toe spring in those days/

But there are two things I really love about that boot--the top binding appears to have no seam and the sideseam is ruler straight. (how in the world?!! the last itself would be expected to impart some curve)
post #27 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by pebblegrain View Post

Edward Green sucks, stick to Bostonian.
If John Lobbs were stitched by hand they would look like your grandma made them and they would also cost $7000. If you want inferior construction at more expense, I'm sure you can hire someone to hand stitch $7000 shoes for you.
No one agrees with you on the cordovan creasing except for wright, iroh, and reevolving (good company).

JLP bespoke is closer to $8k these days from their Madison ave location. I haven't been since they moved a few blocks up.
post #28 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

No toe spring in those days/
But there are two things I really love about that boot--the top binding appears to have no seam and the sideseam is ruler straight. (how in the world?!! the last itself would be expected to impart some curve)

Yes - the way the toe 'hits the ground' in combination with the shape of the arch is something to behold. Would that toe box have been miserably uncomfortable?

I couldn't profess to know how the side seam is formed on the last - I'll be happy to take your word for it that it would be difficult to accomplish.
post #29 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiego View Post

Based on my ownership experience, you are paying for essentially perfect finishing (something I truly believe AE is incapable of), excellent lining, very even leather that's a bit more durable/scuff-resistant than normal, a tough sole that I'd guesstimate will last 50% longer, and very even, clean lasting that give the pair really impressive symmetry. Whether that's worth ~ $1,000 (give or take) more than AE is pretty much up to you. If not for one factor, it would be worth it to me.
That on factor: my C&J Handgrades seem to be the equal to EG in quality/finishing/durability/detail, yet look nicer and cost significantly less, so I am not much of a fan of EG.
My two pairs of JLs are proving much less durable and well-made than any of my AEs, so either I have duds or JL gives you the detailed finish but not necessarily the durability. I suspect the former is true, but I won't be pursuing Lobbs anytime soon.
As always, your experience will vary.

I agree with almost everything you said except for the part of C&J hand grade being comparable to EG. I have one pair of the C&J HG and I have not been impressed with the leather, the way the last fits, or the way they are wearing. They are great shoes, but I will probably not spring for the hand grade again. On the flip side, two years ago I purchased my first EG and fell so in love with the fit, finish, and comfort that two months later I purchased four more pairs. EG is now thhe backbone of my rotation.
post #30 of 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

And the famous cloverleaf tongue
627


Can you identify what this image is? Why is it famous? I'm having difficulty deciphering what I'm looking at.

 

Thanks,

 

Nick D.

 

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