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Shoes, Handmade in the United States for $1000.00 - Page 2

post #16 of 158
1/29/12 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post

I am interested as well.  I am in the process of contacting couple local shoemakers.  Maybe something good will come out of my search.

Besides the hand welting/lasting, the key thing I am looking for is fit and good foot/arch support similar to the use of orthotics (custom or generic).  Sizing up for sole insert sucks.

I read that Delos is capable of making orthopedic insole, which is a huge plus.

My orthopedist recommended me Mizuno Wave and their fit website is definitely very educational for footwear http://www.myprecisionfit.com/test/welcome?lang=en_US&noAnswerSelected=

It would be hard, I think, to find a better shoemaker than Delos.

That said, I have two customers in process now for whom I have cut/modified their insoles to incorporated arch supports. As long as an orthotic doesn't address short legs, plantar wounds such as might be found among diabetics, or very specifically medical/orthopedic corrections, many bespoke makers can modify the last to accommodate your needs.

I once had a customer who had large, hard lumps on the soles of his feet--calcium accretions mostly at the ball and heel. I modified the plantar surface of the last and he was happy as a clam. The only fly in the ointment was that in this state, you have to be certified and have a license to practice medicine to legally make such mods. I don't take on such work anymore.
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post #17 of 158
1/29/12 at 6:06am
BTW, to illustrate how easy it is to find bespoke shoemakers in the $1k or sub $1k range...if only one makes the effort (or is really interested for reasons that are not suspect)...you don't even have to leave SF, consult an "expert" or do such onerous duty as a search (shudder, wince).

Here you go...rimshot.gif
custom-shoemaker-in-los-angeles part two of three

Really!
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post #18 of 158
1/29/12 at 6:27am
Thread Starter 
DWFII - My research has just begun. I simply started by asking those around me for their thoughts and suggestions.

I have begun contacting the shoemakers mentioned above and researching them in more detail.

Don Ville offers three ranges: RTW at around $700, MTM at around $825, and fully bespoke starts at $2300. They did not answer my question as to welting method as of yet - but I will ask again. I'm guessing that MTM is machine welted at that price point.

As the topic seems to be of interest I encourage one and all to add as much detailed input as they can.

I'm especially interested in referrals from satisfied customers as well.
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post #19 of 158
1/29/12 at 6:32am
Here are a few links:
http://customshoemaker.com/mens.html
http://www.limmercustomboot.com/index.php?id=8
http://www.newenglandshoemakers.org/
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post #20 of 158
1/29/12 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sully View Post

I can't help regards shoes in the US but I too feel it is unlikely unless the shoe scene in the US is very different than the UK. I Can get a fully bespoke shoe here by using a shoemaker who works in London but does other work as well for about 1.700 dollars depending on material and style,this is fully handmade bespoke . I believe it is possible to get something cheaper but this may involve machine stitched soles and machine finishing and the quality of leather may not be as good. To me it seems to some extent you get what you pay for sometimes. I should mention I have my own last so this gives me an advantage with price. I wish you luck with your quest and will be interested to see the results.


Any idea how Cliff Roberts is able to turn a profit for what he charges (about 350lbs to 450lbs)? His shoes may not be completely handmade but they are still handwelted and well made from quality leathers which has got to take some serious time effort.


On a related note, it seems that leaving aside the making of the last, that a bespoke shoe would take on a very rough average about 20 hours to make . Putting the total cost per hour at $100 (which I figure is reasonable) gives $2000 and this includes all the base materials (leather & thread). Are shoemakers short selling themselves at this price?
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post #21 of 158
1/29/12 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

DWFII - My research has just begun. I simply started by asking those around me for their thoughts and suggestions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

Thank you for the Vass recommendation. I was aware of them as the only maker currently discussed on this forum as hand made and under $1000 dollars.
I highly doubt your assertion that I will be able to find a shoemaker to make a pair of handmade shoes for me for $1000 here in the US. Do you know of any in Atlanta per chance?


You'll forgive me if I observe that your remarks seem a little more than dubious..."accusatory," almost seems a better fit.

And while I have been known to be wrong and to make mistakes, I would resent deeply any assertion that I would deliberately mislead you or present false information simply to bolster my own position.

I am going to violate my own self-imposed rule and ask the mods to excuse me (if they will be so kind)...but I have made several pairs of shoes for people on this forum and all began or ended in the $1k range (I am that one shoemaker I know "very, very well"). Those customers have spoken well of my work.

Given that this subject has been previously explored...complete with recommendations and even some links; given the interview linked to above; given the relative ease (and the numerous examples) in which people have contacted me in PM to ask my prices and availability, I have to say that I have a hard time believing you are serious with your question.
Edited by DWFII - 1/29/12 at 8:06am
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post #22 of 158
1/29/12 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post

On a related note, it seems that leaving aside the making of the last, that a bespoke shoe would take on a very rough average about 20 hours to make . Putting the total cost per hour at $100 (which I figure is reasonable) gives $2000 and this includes all the base materials (leather & thread). Are shoemakers short selling themselves at this price?

20-40 hours, depending on exactly what techniques are employed and how many years of experience the maker has (not necessarily equivalent to quality or a high level of refinement) with that technique.

Are shoemakers selling themselves short? When haven't they? The only thing you can say is that this is a vocation...for some it is a passion and a compulsion...and, for me at least, I'd rather be making shoes at $40.00 per hour than selling equities at $1000.00 per hour.

The other thing to speculate on, if not assert, is that as long as customers would rather purchase a level of quality that they know is flawed; as long as customers choose expediency over dedication, the superficial over substance, shoemakers...those that survive against all logic and all expectations...will be selling themselves short.

So...there's the big plus for manufacturing--as long as they can sell the appearance of quality...the semblance rather than the substance...they force prices for quality goods down.
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post #23 of 158
1/29/12 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

shoemakers...those that survive against all logic and all expectations...will be selling themselves short.
So...there's the big plus for manufacturing--as long as they can sell the appearance of quality...the semblance rather than the substance...they force prices for quality goods down.

But that only works for so long before new shoemakers choose NOT to be shoemakers any more, They could feed the passion by making shoes for themselves and family but work at any boring 9 to 5 job to pay the bills. Pretty soon the quality work simply isn't available anymore anywhere.

Anyways I hope the passion is strong enough that quality shoemakers don't disappear completely
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post #24 of 158
1/29/12 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post

But that only works for so long before new shoemakers choose NOT to be shoemakers any more, They could feed the passion by making shoes for themselves and family but work at any boring 9 to 5 job to pay the bills. Pretty soon the quality work simply isn't available anymore anywhere.
Anyways I hope the passion is strong enough that quality shoemakers don't disappear completely

+1

It's already happening. Do you see a solution...other than educating people?
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post #25 of 158
1/29/12 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chogall View Post


I read that Delos is capable of making orthopedic insole, which is a huge plus.

i don't know any, who is not?
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post #26 of 158
1/29/12 at 8:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

You'll forgive me if I observe that your remarks seem a little more than dubious..."accusatory," almost seems a better fit.
And while I have been known to be wrong and to make mistakes, I would resent deeply any assertion that I would deliberately mislead you or present false information simply to bolster my own position.
I am going to violate my own self-imposed rule and ask the mods to excuse me (if they will be so kind)...but I have made several pairs of shoes for people on this forum and all began or ended in the $1k range (I am that one shoemaker I know "very, very well"). Those customers have spoken well of my work.
Given that this subject has been previously explored...complete with recommendations and even some links; given the interview linked to above; given the relative ease (and the numerous examples) in which people have contacted me in PM to ask my prices and availability, I have to say that I have a hard time believing you are serious with your question.

I can somewhat understand why you might feel this way. Bear in mind that I've only very recently even begun to understand the differences between different types of shoe construction.

Am I serious about how I might spend 1k on a pair of shoes, you bet. At least to the degree that I consider any $1000 purchase. To date I've but three pairs in this price range, all G&G. For what they are they are fine. But I'm now trying to understand how I might make better choices in the future. I find that asking questions of the forum is a worthwhile way to proceed, as there are often many well informed people out there who are willing to share their knowledge.

If my questions to the forum are a burdon to you please know that I, for one, do not expect you spend your valuable time answering questions that the forum should be able to respond to reasonably. If, however, your message has somehow failed to reach the hearts and minds of the forum and you thus feel somehow compelled to keep on keeping on with the discussion then I apologize for your trouble but assure you that I value your assistance.

Apparently my inexperience has shown a bit here, in that I have indeed been incredulous that one can have a pair of shoes handwelted here in the US for around 1k. I would never have dreamed in my wildest dreams that you would make a pair of shoes for this amount. I'm truly stunned.

There are, of course other costs associated with the first shoe, including travel, lasts, etc. etc. but once complete these costs are no more. Which leads me to a couple of additional questions: 1.) Would I own the lasts? Have access to them when you are no longer making shoes? 2.) Given that you are currently semi retired could you please say something as to how much longer you intend to work? I hope these questions are not too personal and if you wish to PM with the answers that is fine with me. But the questions are indeed valid when considering such a purchase and would be of interest to the forum.
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post #27 of 158
1/29/12 at 9:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

If my questions to the forum are a burdon to you please know that I, for one, do not expect you spend your valuable time answering questions that the forum should be able to respond to reasonably. If, however, your message has somehow failed to reach the hearts and minds of the forum and you thus feel somehow compelled to keep on keeping on with the discussion then I apologize for your trouble but assure you that I value your assistance.

As I said to Xenon...or implied...my mission here is to educate people...to offer insights and perspectives they may not have encountered before and which, ideally, in some admittedly pollyanna-ish future, will insure that there is a place and a respect for the Traditions and the Trade...and the people who pursue it.

I set these "self-imposed" rules of restraint upon myself because that mission is more important to me (and at my age I have the leisure to choose my priorities) than selling shoes or promoting my business. I don't always succeed especially when I present something I am particularly proud of but I try to avoid self-promotion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

There are, of course other costs associated with the first shoe, including travel, lasts, etc. etc. but once complete these costs are no more. Which leads me to a couple of additional questions: 1.) Would I own the lasts? Have access to them when you are no longer making shoes? 2.) Given that you are currently semi retired could you please say something as to how much longer you intend to work? I hope these questions are not too personal and if you wish to PM with the answers that is fine with me. But the questions are indeed valid when considering such a purchase and would be of interest to the forum.

I'm at sea as to whether other shoemakers will allow you to own or have access to lasts that the shoemaker has made or modified for you. Perhaps at an additional cost. But I don't know of any shoemakers that offer that option free of charge.

As regards how long I intend to work...till it's time to get on the bus, or I step out in front of it. What else would I do? It's not like this Trade pays so well paid that I have a retirement bungalow in Dominica.
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post #28 of 158
1/29/12 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

There are, of course other costs associated with the first shoe, including travel, lasts, etc. etc. but once complete these costs are no more.

The cost of travel and lasts can vary greatly. With Jon Gray, I managed to get him to visit the city where I lived while he was touring the province. However, Gray could have guided me through the measuring process over Skype. (He offered to do that.) The internet could save you traveling costs. You would have to rely on photos when choosing the leather for the uppers, though.

As for lasts, Gray would normally use factories either in the US or Mexico for around $100 , but if the customer would be willing to pay upwards of $500 then one could have lasts made by Springline along with lasted shoe trees. In both cases, I'd imagine that I'd own the lasts as I paid for them, but I hadn't asked.
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post #29 of 158
1/29/12 at 9:24am
Thread Starter 
Would it not be customary for the lasts to belong to the customer when the shoe maker retires or closes shop? I understand why they remain the property of the shoemaker as long as the business is up and running - would never presume to have access to them in that situation.
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post #30 of 158
1/29/12 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdot View Post

Would it not be customary for the lasts to belong to the customer when the shoe maker retires or closes shop? I understand why they remain the property of the shoemaker as long as the business is up and running - would never presume to have access to them in that situation.

As I understand it, the last is specific to the shoemaker as well. Some makers are reluctant to use lasts made for another maker. I don't plan on getting those lasts anyway because I want to order more shoes from Gray in the future. I only wish the waiting time isn't so long.

Gray shouldn't close shop any time soon because he's in his thirties, I think.
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