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Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 294

post #4396 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

The UAW and the rust belt unions are perfect examples of everything wrong with organized labor in the U.S.

This is not entirely true. I know that in WI at least, business are big fans of the construction unions because they do more training--and such a better job of it--than anyone else and they have a fairly decent pool of talent.
post #4397 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by edinatlanta View Post

This is not entirely true. I know that in WI at least, business are big fans of the construction unions because they do more training--and such a better job of it--than anyone else and they have a fairly decent pool of talent.
That was the point . In context I was contrasting the the building trades ( construction) model with the old rust belt ( think UAW) unions . As a 35 year member of a construction union I am well aware of the advantages of a labor pool that acts in partnership with business rather than in competition
post #4398 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post


That was the point . In context I was contrasting the the building trades ( construction) model with the old rust belt ( think UAW) unions . As a 35 year member of a construction union I am well aware of the advantages of a labor pool that acts in partnership with business rather than in competition

This is what the labour unions in Europe do, no? I believe it's called social corporatism.

post #4399 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooksLauren77 View Post

This is what the labour unions in Europe do, no? I believe it's called social corporatism.

Thats the idea, and when practiced its Wonderfull. However, we too have our fair share of destructive unions..

For a prime example that happened recently in my region:
http://www.wageindicator.org/main/labour-laws/collective-bargaining/2014/netherlands-philip-morris-workers-on-strike-january-17-2013

Fine, you can strike if your wages are below average for the industry. Yet they weren't, as it turns out an average forklift driver there earned approx. 50% more compared to other industries.
Even for a profitable industry like tobacco there is a cost basis for your factories to run on, once the variable cost becomes to high on a year on year basis, the opportunity cost to move to a lower wages country can become enticing.
As it turned out, this particular straw was the one that broke the camels back, so this happened:

http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/04/04/1200-fired-philip-morris-factory-closes/

Thats over 1200 people out of a job, and probably 2500 in total in adjacent industries. The unions should have done a better job in educating their people about the very good position they had in a declining industry, yet instead they went on strike for even more pay..

I mentioned the example before in this thread because it truly annoys me, as it certainly wasn't necessary. The news articles might paint an even clearer picture..
post #4400 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by nootje View Post



Thats over 1200 people out of a job, and probably 2500 in total in adjacent industries. The unions should have done a better job in educating their people about the very good position they had in a declining industry, yet instead they went on strike for even more pay..

I mentioned the example before in this thread because it truly annoys me, as it certainly wasn't necessary. The news articles might paint an even clearer picture..

Thanks for that, I've read about the opposite happening in Germany, with workers wages as low as 2 euros an hour.

post #4401 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooksLauren77 View Post

This is what the labour unions in Europe do, no? I believe it's called social corporatism.
Many of them do , yes .My international ( U.S. And Canada) has established a formal program based on a European model dedicated to eliminating problems in the labor/ contractor relationship . My particular local has engaged in this practice for quite some time and as they say the proof is in the pudding .In the two counties over which we hold jurisdiction our employment rate is presently over 200% with a journeyman hourly rate of just under $100 . There is a lot of knee jerk anti- Union sentiment around but I would venture to say there are very few if any of these perceived " problems " that have not been addressed and resolved to the satisfaction of both sides . At least not by the organizations with which I've been involved .
Note: we also avoid the use of the terms social or socialism so to avoid the also knee jerk response it elicits from individuals uneducated in the true meaninglessness of these constructs
post #4402 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

In the two counties over which we hold jurisdiction our employment rate is presently over 200% with a journeyman hourly rate of just under $100 .
How do you have a 200% employment rate? Everyone has two full time jobs?

And journeymen make 200k+/year?
post #4403 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

Many of them do , yes .My international ( U.S. And Canada) has established a formal program based on a European model dedicated to eliminating problems in the labor/ contractor relationship . My particular local has engaged in this practice for quite some time and as they say the proof is in the pudding .In the two counties over which we hold jurisdiction our employment rate is presently over 200% with a journeyman hourly rate of just under $100 . There is a lot of knee jerk anti- Union sentiment around but I would venture to say there are very few if any of these perceived " problems " that have not been addressed and resolved to the satisfaction of both sides . At least not by the organizations with which I've been involved .
Note: we also avoid the use of the terms social or socialism so to avoid the also knee jerk response it elicits from individuals uneducated in the true meaninglessness of these constructs


This is fantastic.
post #4404 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixOhNine View Post

How do you have a 200% employment rate? Everyone has two full time jobs?

And journeymen make 200k+/year?
All members of the local are working plus an equal or greater number from other areas of the country .( I would think this would be obvious )
Google Northern California pipe trades journeyman pay scale it is a matter of public record .
Edit I failed to mention that we just signed a new agreement for $ 12 per hour increase over the next 6 years
Edited by Numbernine - 8/19/15 at 6:28pm
post #4405 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

All members of the local are working plus an equal or greater number from other areas of the country .( I would think this would be obvious )
Google Northern California pipe trades journeyman pay scale it is a matter of public record .
Edit I failed to mention that we just signed a new agreement for $ 12 per hour increase over the next 6 years

http://www.ua342.org/JATC_Wage.pdf

$53.46.
post #4406 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

All members of the local are working plus an equal or greater number from other areas of the country .( I would think this would be obvious )
Google Northern California pipe trades journeyman pay scale it is a matter of public record .
Edit I failed to mention that we just signed a new agreement for $ 12 per hour increase over the next 6 years

This is a bit misleading, but certainly seems like a good wage.

Starting wage is $21.88/hr + $22.45/hr in benefits for an apprentice. When I interview for jobs they don't say, "Hey you'll be making $100k/yr.... but $50k of that is benefits." It looks like the Journyman base seems to be $53.46. Is it really 10 years to be a journeyman?


http://www.ua342.org/JATC_Wage.pdf
post #4407 of 5454
englade when the Freikorps take your block don't forget to burn your union card! :P
post #4408 of 5454
So even a salaried employ has his/her wage calculated off a 40 hour work week. Does this mean I should be tossing in my car allowance, paid healthcare, pension, deferred comp, and the rest of my benefits/perks and deem it part of my base wage calculation?
post #4409 of 5454
Unions = distorted labor market

"Deadweight loss from union activity is believed to represent as much as 0.04% of the gross domestic product (GDP)"

Englade's by-any-other-name union aside I always think of the nonunion Tennessee car plants at $15/hr vs the unionized $55/hr Michigan ones...that are gone. Simplistik-like speaking. ie not even getting into healthcare, pension costs.

I think the fact only the entrenched political power of public worker unions witnesses them as the last ones standing speaks for itself. 15 paid sick days + vacay etc. Noone would take business risk with such expensive baggage on labor.
post #4410 of 5454
*eurozone unemploy't vs US's over any time period basically ends the arg.
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