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Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 293

post #4381 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post


Not being able to get rid of dead weight inflicts even private industry in the U.S . Even though the work I did was 100% union if I was managing a project and found a man lacking I just called for his check and sent him down the road . I didn't need to qualify the action with anything other than I didn't need him anymore

Cannot do that today. RIFs have rules.
post #4382 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post


Not being able to get rid of dead weight inflicts even private industry in the U.S . Even though the work I did was 100% union if I was managing a project and found a man lacking I just called for his check and sent him down the road . I didn't need to qualify the action with anything other than I didn't need him anymore

I agree with you. Even non-union shops. I have worked in large organizations since graduating college, and it is ongoing joke at every place, that noone ever gets fired. At my last employer, they rarely even fired sales who didn't hit quota (the entry level low-paid sales guys, they'd can for not hitting in a month, but the high-level, large customer sales guys rarely got canned).

There is the perpetual fear of getting sued for wrongful termination. They give you like 3-6 months to start performing, then they put you on a performance improvement plan for 3-6 months, and then if you're still not up to it, then you get the boot.
post #4383 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Cannot do that today. RIFs have rules.
This is where hiring members of a collective has its advantages . We ( the union ) exist only to supply skilled labor to our contractors thus the quality of that labor is paramount . A member who is unwilling to provide a days work for a .days pay is not tolarated. I as , let's say, project manager ( you wear a lot of hats in the building trades) and fellow member of the collective make the call that this individuals performance is sub par and therefore not in the interest of either his employer or the fellow members of the collective . 99.9 percent of workers take the RIF . The small percentage who might carry a grevience outside the confines of collective is going to be arguing that the individual whose job it is to determine project scheduling and manpower loading is wrongfully performing his job .
post #4384 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

This is where hiring members of a collective has its advantages . We ( the union ) exist only to supply skilled labor to our contractors thus the quality of that labor is paramount . A member who is unwilling to provide a days work for a .days pay is not tolarated. I as , let's say, project manager ( you wear a lot of hats in the building trades) and fellow member of the collective make the call that this individuals performance is sub par and therefore not in the interest of either his employer or the fellow members of the collective . 99.9 percent of workers take the RIF . The small percentage who might carry a grevience outside the confines of collective is going to be arguing that the individual whose job it is to determine project scheduling and manpower loading is wrongfully performing his job .

I grew up in a union household, and I can tell you that the union doesn't necessarily cut out deadweight in the auto unions or other manufacturing unions in the way you describe. They protect seniority first, then they protect everyone and make it impossible to fire even crappy employees.
post #4385 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

I grew up in a union household, and I can tell you that the union doesn't necessarily cut out deadweight in the auto unions or other manufacturing unions in the way you describe. They protect seniority first, then they protect everyone and make it impossible to fire even crappy employees.
You are certainly correct unions need to evolve and as I have stated earlier I was lucky enough to associate myself with an organization that rejected the old adversarial model
I can only describe how my local operates . Most building trades (construction) locals operate in a similar manner . A lot of our success is based on demand I realize but we must be doing something right because in face of strong anti union sentiment and a large non-Union workforce my local is 200% employed with open call . A total journeyman wage package of just under $100 per hour with a contract for $10.50 over the next 6 years
I would venture to say there have been very few if any conflicts that we have not been able to resolve to the satisfaction of both parties as long as everyone operated from a position of fairness
post #4386 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

This is where hiring members of a collective has its advantages . We ( the union ) exist only to supply skilled labor to our contractors thus the quality of that labor is paramount . A member who is unwilling to provide a days work for a .days pay is not tolarated. I as , let's say, project manager ( you wear a lot of hats in the building trades) and fellow member of the collective make the call that this individuals performance is sub par and therefore not in the interest of either his employer or the fellow members of the collective . 99.9 percent of workers take the RIF . The small percentage who might carry a grevience outside the confines of collective is going to be arguing that the individual whose job it is to determine project scheduling and manpower loading is wrongfully performing his job .

The thing is there's rules in regards to using RIFs. Fill that position within six months and you've got exposure. Use it as a mechanism to turf employees on a regular basis as you're talking about here? Sure trouble.
post #4387 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

The thing is there's rules in regards to using RIFs. Fill that position within six months and you've got exposure. Use it as a mechanism to turf employees on a regular basis as you're talking about here? Sure trouble.
Yeah well trouble is kinda what we get paid to deal with
post #4388 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

I grew up in a union household, and I can tell you that the union doesn't necessarily cut out deadweight in the auto unions or other manufacturing unions in the way you describe. They protect seniority first, then they protect everyone and make it impossible to fire even crappy employees.
The UAW and the rust belt unions are perfect examples of everything wrong with organized labor in the U.S the worst result was that they became the model for public service employees unions . I would never trust the officers of any union that encourages its members to relinquish control of their pensions and benefits to an outsider not to mention employer
post #4389 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

Yeah well trouble is kinda what we get paid to deal with

Friend, you're not getting it. Are you a pro bono labour attorney? You will get in legal trouble using RIFs as a method of terminating unwanted employees vs. actually doing, you know, a RIF.
post #4390 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Friend, you're not getting it. Are you a pro bono labour attorney? You will get in legal trouble using RIFs as a method of terminating unwanted employees vs. actually doing, you know, a RIF.
Ok we have prolly shitted up this thread enough with this but I honestly am curious to know what would be the criteria for actually " doing a RIF " as opposed to just letting someone go because you don't need them anymore . Personally I have received 13 in one year . This is not uncommon at all . I have been hired and let go within one day not because of of any problems but simply because that's all I was required for
post #4391 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

Ok we have prolly shitted up this thread enough with this but I honestly am curious to know what would be the criteria for actually " doing a RIF " as opposed to just letting someone go because you don't need them anymore . Personally I have received 13 in one year . This is not uncommon at all . I have been hired and let go within one day not because of of any problems but simply because that's all I was required for

You clearly indicated above your place of employment and union was using RIFs to weed out undesirable employees. A RIF, a reduction in force, has to be just that. You cannot RIF someone and fill the position tomorrow without legal exposure. Best practices call for leaving that position vacant for at least six month, preferably a year. It is enforced that a RIF is actually for real and honest downsizing not as a way to terminate bad employees.
post #4392 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

Merriam-Webster dictionary is wrong, guys. Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia with impeccable credentials.

LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01
post #4393 of 5454
Quote:
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Of course. Because no pro-lifer has ever lifted a finger to help starving children, amirite?
post #4394 of 5454

I love reading these socialism vs capitalism debates and wouldn't be surprised if JapanAlex was of the Chardonnay variety. Of course, I've read that hardline commies and socialists (no they are not the same) argue that the USSR and such were not actually communist/socialist. One major point being that the State controlled everything and not the workers. Thus, they say the USSR was command economy and thus State Capitalist. I'd wager that point is a fallacious No True Scotsman one.

 

FWIW, Revolutionary Catalonia in Spain had some temporarily successful examples of anarcho-syndicalism (liberatarian socialism and the idea that power corrupts) in the Spanish Revolution before they were crushed by fascist Franco in the Spanish Civil War.

 

http://anarchism.pageabode.com/afaq/secI8.html

http://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/murray-bookchin-to-remember-spain-the-anarchist-and-syndicalist-revolution-of-1936

 

George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia is an interesting read.

post #4395 of 5454

On that note, I found this on a Redditor's post that he found on his Facebook.

 

 

A president that didn't nationalize any industry; worst socialist ever.

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