Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 284
And, I don't expect to sell the idea to greedy people who aren't humanists. In my subjective opinion, they are bad people, and what's wrong with the world.
The reason Scandinavian countries are doing the best right now is myriad, but a large part of it is because they are more socialist leaning. More socialist = better. That's not subjective.
Russia ended in failure, because it was a state capitalist, dictator-run, fascist state. Socialism wasn't a part of soviet Russia.
Now, let's go back to this little gem. Tell me, how is it decided what these workers will produce, how much of it, and how it will be sold?
Students are in a pre-productive phase by definition, so, if I'm speaking from the position that you're still a student, wishing you well that you become a productive citizen is far from an insult; you're just looking to be insulted just as you're looking to tell us how much you care about the poor when you have absolutely zero knowledge of what some of might do to actually, tangibly, help the poor.
If you can now give me an example of how you help the poor, I will be more than happy to applaud you!
I would be much happier being in my productive stage (which I have been for several years now) in a socialist society.
Believe me, your silly allegations are not making anyone uncomfortable.
I'm pretty far to the left by this forum's standards, certainly not one of the rigid capitalists or libertarians. But it's simply juvenile to posit that anyone who disagrees with a broad statement about the "obvious" superiority of one position is "immoral or ignorant" in an enormously broad and complex topic like economic theory.
So far history has shown the purist approach ends in failure (Russia) or compromise (China and Cuba ) socialist minded reformers would do well to look at the Scandanavian (sp?) or German systems . You ain't never gonna sell that " workers utopia " to anyone who asks " what's in it for me "
The pitchforks are out. There's no serious discussion going to be happening in here right now.
But I'm not looking for your applause, or for that matter, applause from anyone. What I do I do due to my past life experiences and what I feel can tangibly improve the lot of individuals, and by extension, society. Unlike the original FB idiot that started this tangent I don't view charity as a sport needing an audience.
China and Russia were never and aren't now socialist/communist; I was merely pointing out a fact.
Most governments limit the 'free' (haw) market? First of all, barely. Second of all, that's not strictly the definition of capitalism. It's about private ownership vs. worker ownership.
I don't understand your last point; could you rephrase it?
My last point was this you are holding up negatives from real examples and calling those examples capitalist But than refuse others to use the closest real example of communism russia and china... wtf
essentially you are comparing 2 theoritical models free market capitalism vs that pinko system. Having no true examples of either you are speculating on which would would have better result
Well, I will applaud this post instead (apart from calling that guy an idiot which he clearly isn't on the basis of that post alone).
So, find me a true free market. I mean one where, with cash in hand, I can buy non-gov certified meat, anthrax, a non-gov tested vehicle, C4 without Id, etc. What you call 'limited' I [call] govs controlling (or at least trying to) all aspects of the economy for our supposed safety. They also demand producers keep up certain conditions, etc.
My last point was this: You are holding up negatives from real examples and calling those examples capitalist, but then refuse others to use the closest real example of communism (Russia and China). WTF? Essentially, you are comparing 2 theoretical models of free market capitalism vs. that pinko system. Having no true examples of either, you are speculating on which would would have better result.
I haven't spoken about the 'free' market once, and I don't plan to. Capitalism and the 'free' market are different things.
Oh, I completely agree, if we had more examples (read: any) of socialist states, I would be in a much better position, to argue my point. But, we don't. Cuba is the closest thing we have to a socialist society, and they have only truly gone full socialist this year, so we'll have to just wait and see. In line with that, we have sanctions lifted on them from Obama, so those two things together could provide some interesting data for my claim, that socialism trumps capitalism by nature.
If they like darts...?
Do I really have to do this?
OK, all the workers work 9-5 (or whatever hours they decide) Mon-Fri (for example), and, every Saturday, all sit around a table for a meeting. In this meeting, they decide what to sell, how to raise profits, how to spend those profits ,etc.
Socialism is fundamentally similar to capitalism in terms of economics apart from there are no CEOs/shareholders, and the workers have a real say in how things are run. I don't understand why anyone would be overtly against that idea, unless they benefit from the current system like Piobaire (haha, I'm kidding).