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Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 283

post #4231 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by englade321 View Post

The governments of most, if not all, developed countries are a combination of both socialism and capitalism. They only vary as to the degree they lean left or right. You two are arguing as if they are polar. This denies the possibility of a conclusion, and thus places it the realm of mental masturbation.

 

Thank you for, at least, an intelligent retort, and I do find this somewhat amusing but...

 

Study after study find the most-socialist countries (like Sweden, etc.) are the best off in terms of living standards.

 

We need to end capitalism (whether private or state); that is my argument.

 

This notion that 'market forces' (whatever the hell that means) create wealth is absurd. Workers create wealth.

post #4232 of 5454
So your earlier statement, telling me I would be better paid and have a higher standard of living, was completely wrong.

Please continue to instruct us all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanAlex01 View Post

Haha, you'll be paid less, and you'd have a chance of being voted out of management (as you could still have office hierarchy in a co-op), but the society you live in would have a much greater standard of living overall, so you would still see huge benefits.

You'd have to learn to live with the idea that mass profit and the abuse on the poor is not the end goal--not suggesting you do that in your company--and that bringing up the poorest among us makes us all better off.

In a socialist society, everyone overall are much better paid, there is far less unemployment, and there is less chance of tax evasion (US corporations more-often-than-not pay 0% corporation tax) which generates a much stronger economy. This, ironically, is what so many people have been taught to believe they should be against. The same people who teach them that this way is wrong are the ones who are fucking them.
post #4233 of 5454

I said your overall standard of living would vastly improve which in many respects is better than a high wage. And besides, it's up to the workers of the company you own, to decide how much you are paid. They might find your salary morally affordable. It all depends on how much of a rich prick your are (joke).

post #4234 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanAlex01 View Post

I said your overall standard of living would vastly improve. And besides, it's up to the workers of the company you own, to decide how much you are paid. They might find your salary morally affordable. It all depends on how much of a rich prick your are (joke).

You said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanAlex01 View Post


The hilarious (well, sad) thing is: You'd all be extremely happy, if you lived in a socialist society, as you'd all be better-paid, and you'd have a much higher standard of living. The current debt capitalism we live with doesn't allow much social progression.

Then you told me how my company would not need a CEO.

I think we're done here.
post #4235 of 5454

Wow, a CEO but still a little on the stupid side.

 

Basically, if you're against the idea, you're morally corrupt. I understand you will probably argue: 'I made the company and put the money in, so why should I hand the reins over to the staff, and potentially get voted out?'. And, to that I'd say: Socialism doesn't have to be revolutionary; it can start with new businesses like the program they currently have in Italy where they give you two years unemployment benefit up-front, if you put it into a new co-op business.

 

You're merely against the idea, because you benefit from a corrupt system.

post #4236 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanAlex01 View Post

Wow, a CEO but still a little on the stupid side.

Basically, if you're against the idea, you're morally corrupt. I understand you will probably argue: 'I made the company and put the money in, so why should I hand the reins over to the staff, and potentially get voted out?'. And, to that I'd say: Socialism doesn't have to be revolutionary; it can start with new businesses like the program they currently have in Italy where they give you two years unemployment benefit up-front, if you put it into a new co-op business.

Lol. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is stupid and morally corrupt. Gee, why did someone think you're a college freshman?

Just admit you were wrong when you told me socialism would necessarily see me better paid and raise my standard of living.
post #4237 of 5454
I think it is only fair to point out if you are not allowing china nor russia as examples of communism you must also admit there is no real example of capitalism since most govs limit the free market in someway.
That said most of your argument is faulty because you are using negatives from examples that are capitalist.
post #4238 of 5454

It would raise your standard of living undoubtedly.

 

I guess I forgot to mention that CEOs and shareholders who lose out to the benefit of the many, but I didn't expect you to be a CEO.

 

I don't think people who disagree with me are always morally corrupt. They are either morally corrupt or ignorant. Pick one.

 

If you don't want to advance society for your selfishness, how is that anything other than morally corrupt?

post #4239 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarphe View Post

I think it is only fair to point out if you are not allowing China nor Russia as examples of communism, you must also admit there is no real example of capitalism, since most govs limit the free market in someway. That said, most of your argument is faulty because you are using negatives from examples that are capitalist.

 

China and Russia were never and aren't now socialist/communist; I was merely pointing out a fact.

 

Most governments limit the 'free' (haw) market? First of all, barely. Second of all, that's not strictly the definition of capitalism. It's about private ownership vs. worker ownership.

 

I don't understand your last point; could you rephrase it?

post #4240 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanAlex01 View Post

I don't think people who disagree with me are always morally corrupt. They are either morally corrupt or ignorant. Pick one.

You're really encouraging conversation there.
post #4241 of 5454
Not going to admit you were wrong when the words are right there on your screen yet you're accusing others of ignorance and/or moral corruption?

This is so Animal Farm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanAlex01 View Post

It would raise your standard of living undoubtedly.

I guess I forgot to mention that CEOs and shareholders who lose out to the benefit of the many, but I didn't expect you to be a CEO.

I don't think people who disagree with me are always morally corrupt. They are either morally corrupt or ignorant. Pick one.

If you don't want to advance society for your selfishness, how is that anything other than morally corrupt?
post #4242 of 5454
Quote:
You're really encouraging conversation there.


Merely pointing out a fact. If that makes you uncomfortable, that's up to you to worry about.

 

Piobaire, I just admitted I was wrong in what you highlighted.

 

Thing is: I don't care, that the rich will lose out for everyone else, because I care about everyone and not just a select few. You are part of the problem--even if you are a moral CEO who isn't doing anything overtly untoward.

post #4243 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanAlex01 View Post


Merely pointing out a fact. If that makes you uncomfortable, that's up to you to worry about.

Piobaire, I just admitted I was wrong. Scroll up.

Thing is: I don't care, that the rich will lose out for everyone else, because I care about everyone and not just a select few.

You said you didn't expect me to be a CEO and that I would lose out. Okay, I'll take that as tacit admission you were wrong.

You are a college freshman, or there abouts, aren't you? Not that there's anything wrong with that but the thinking constructs are just so apparent. I'm not going to insult your intelligence or personal ethics, as you have done to me, and hope you turn out to be a productive member of society.
post #4244 of 5454

OK, well you just did insult me like I insulted you, by insinuating I don't contribute to society, but that's OK; I won't cry about it.

 

Secondly, university was a long time ago for me. Perhaps I look young?

post #4245 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by JapanAlex01 View Post

Haha, you'll be paid less, and you'd have a chance of being voted out of management (as you could still have office hierarchy in a co-op), but the society you live in would have a much greater standard of living overall, so you would still see huge benefits.

You'd have to learn to live with the idea that mass profit and the abuse on the poor is not the end goal--not suggesting you do that in your company--and that bringing up the poorest among us makes us all better off.

In a socialist society, everyone overall are much better paid, there is far less unemployment, and there is less chance of tax evasion (US corporations more-often-than-not pay 0% corporation tax) which generates a much stronger economy. This, ironically, is what so many people have been taught to believe they should be against. The same people who teach them that this way is wrong are the ones who are fucking them.
So far history has shown the purist approach ends in failure (Russia) or compromise (China and Cuba ) socialist minded reformers would do well to look at the Scandanavian (sp?) or German systems . You ain't never gonna sell that " workers utopia " to anyone who asks " what's in it for me "
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