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Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 277

post #4141 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post



The 2001 Georgia flag was an abomination, wasn't it? I remember people complaining that Mississippians might have voted for the Magnolia flag if it had been offered instead of what was disparagingly called the pizza flag.
 

 

I am a native Georgian and will attest to the 2001 flag being awful. Confederate stuff aside, flag experts (there is such a thing) discussed how terrible it was from a flag design standpoint.

post #4142 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

"Northern invasion". Lol. You fucking southerners. Just can't let shit go, can you?

Sort of like the War of Southern Aggression which you Yanks refer to as the War of 1812.
post #4143 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

"Northern invasion". Lol. You fucking southerners. Just can't let shit go, can you?

Ay, invade a sovereign country once is all it takes to lose trust for a few centuries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbromer View Post

I am a native Georgian

Seriously?
post #4144 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

"Northern invasion". Lol. You fucking southerners. Just can't let shit go, can you?

Considering that, as far as I know, relatively speaking, it was the bloodiest war since the reformation, and southern losses as a percentage of the population compare to the bloodiest wars ever fought even today, we still think it was a big deal. Yeah.
post #4145 of 5454
This is all because of one crazy guy who shot up a church? How was the flag responsible for any of this? Will removing the flag end bigotry in the state? Racism?

I frankly don't care one way or the other about the flag, but unless I missed something, what does this accomplish?
post #4146 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Considering that, as far as I know, relatively speaking, it was the bloodiest war since the reformation, and southern losses as a percentage of the population compare to the bloodiest wars ever fought even today, we still think it was a big deal. Yeah.


I know you guys do. You're so cute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edinatlanta View Post

Ay, invade a sovereign country once is all it takes to lose trust for a few centuries.
Seriously?


Oh please. Tell it to Mexico.
post #4147 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold falcon View Post

I know you guys do. You're so cute.
Oh please. Tell it to Mexico.

What did the Mexican say when his homework flew out the window?
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Ayyyyy, come back essay!
post #4148 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokencycle View Post

This is all because of one crazy guy who shot up a church? How was the flag responsible for any of this? Will removing the flag end bigotry in the state? Racism?

I frankly don't care one way or the other about the flag, but unless I missed something, what does this accomplish?

No, it's not because one crazy kid shot up a church. It's just the final act that prompted action.

Flags can be powerful symbols. This flag is a particularly powerful symbol for many people. Many people perceive that this flag held particular significance to the shooter and his beliefs. Attacking that symbol is a way for some people to take away something from the shooter. That makes people, who are grieving or feel marginalized, feel better or empowered.

Not everyone needs to feel this way. Many people don't. Maybe you don't. Maybe I don't. Doesn't really matter, if it is the motivation for many others. To them, they are accomplishing something by attacking what they perceive is a powerful symbol for something they oppose.

Of course, removing the flag doesn't end bigotry or racism. It's a symbolic act, and people find significance in symbolic acts. Not all people all the time. And to varying degrees. But it's naive to think symbols and symbolic acts don't have some meaning and significance to some people.
post #4149 of 5454
So it's not about the flag, but about piling just a little more punishment on this one guy who's almost certainly going to be executed for what he did?

I like the bit about doing it just to piss off people who support the flag, though it doesn't help your prior position about this not being divisive, does it?
post #4150 of 5454
Kevin Williamson's take . . .

Quote:
So is the brouhaha over the Confederate flag in South Carolina in the wake of the horrific massacre at Emanuel AME Church. For about 30 seconds, the political ghouls of the Left were looking to pick another gun-control fight, swooping in, in their habitually indecent fashion, before the bodies had even grown cold. But that turned out to be a dead end, since the killer acquired his gun after passing precisely the sort of background check that the Left generally hawks after a high-profile crime, regardless of whether it is relevant to the crime. We might have spent some time thinking about whether law enforcement was too lax in the matter of the murderer’s earlier encounters with them — the South Carolina killer had a drug arrest on his record but was able to buy a gun because he had been charged only with a misdemeanor. But the Left isn’t in any mood to talk about whether the cops aren’t being hard-assed enough. So, instead, we had a fight over a completely unrelated issue: the Confederate flag flying at the state capitol in Columbia.

You have to credit the Left: Its strategy is deft. If you can make enough noise that sounds approximately like a moral crisis, then you can in effect create a moral crisis. Never mind that the underlying argument — "Something bad has happened to somebody else, and so you must give us something we want!” — is entirely specious; it is effective. In the wake of the financial crisis, we got all manner of “reform,” from student-lending practices to the mandates of Elizabeth Warren’s new pet bureaucracy, involving things that had nothing at all to do with the financial crisis. Democrats argued that decency compelled us to pass a tax increase in the wake of the crisis, though tax rates had nothing to do with it. A crisis is a crisis is a crisis, and if a meteor hits Ypsilanti tomorrow you can be sure that Debbie Stabenow will be calling for a $15 national minimum wage because of the plight of meteor victims. If you can make enough noise that sounds approximately like a moral crisis, then you can in effect create a moral crisis.

I bear no brief for the peckerwood-trash cultural tendencies that led Fritz Hollings, then governor, and the rest of the loyal Democrats who ran segregation-era South Carolina to hoist the Confederate flag in 1962. My sympathies are more with John Brown than with John Calhoun. Yet Lost Cause romanticism was very much in fashion for a moment, and not only among Confederate revanchists; Joan Baez, no redneck she, made a great deal of money with her recording of “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down” in 1971. About every third Western of the era had as its hero a conflicted Confederate veteran, his wounded honor and stoicism in defeat compelling him to roam westward in search of a new beginning. That story lives on into our own time: Who are Mal Reynolds and the Browncoats if not another remnant of the Lost Cause relocated from Virginia to the frontier in space?

Of course the Confederate flag is a symbol of Southern racism. It is a good many other things, too, none of which was the cause of the massacre at Emanuel AME. It is strange and ironic that adherents of the Democratic party — which was, for about 140 years, not only the South’s but the world’s leading white-supremacist organization — should work themselves up over one flag, raised by their fellow partisans, at this late a date; but, well, welcome to the party. Yet Democratic concern about racist totems is selective: The Democrats are not going to change the name of their party, cancel the annual Jefferson-Jackson dinner, or stop naming things after Robert Byrd, senator and Exalted Cyclops of the Ku Klux Klan. Hillary Clinton is not going to be made to answer for her participation in a political campaign that featured Confederate-flag imagery.

The Confederate flag, and other rebel iconography, is a marker of Southern distinctiveness, which, like American distinctiveness, is inextricably bound up with the enslavement and oppression of black people. But only the South is irredeemable in the Left’s view, and it has been so only since about 1994, when it went Republican. Which is to say, the Confederate flag is an emblem of regional distinctiveness disapproved of by 21st-century Democrats.

Their reinvigorated concern is awfully nice: When the South actually was a segregationist backwater that African-Americans were fleeing by the million — when Democrats were running the show — they were ho-hum. Today the South is an economic powerhouse, dominated by Republicans, and attracting new African-American residents by the thousands. And so the Left and its creature, the Democratic party, insist that Southern identity as such must be anathematized. The horrific crime that shocked the nation notwithstanding, black life in Charleston remains very different, in attractive ways, from black life in such Left-dominated horror shows as Cleveland and Detroit, and the state’s governor is, in the parlance of identity politics, a woman of color — but she is a Republican, too, and therefore there must be shrieking, rending of garments, and gnashing of teeth.

This is a fraud, and some scales are starting to fall from some eyes.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420211/left-activist-peak-kevin-d-williamson
post #4151 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

So it's not about the flag, but about piling just a little more punishment on this one guy who's almost certainly going to be executed for what he did?

I like the bit about doing it just to piss off people who support the flag, though it doesn't help your prior position about this not being divisive, does it?

No.

You know that I was just responding to a very particular aspect of this issue, i.e. why the debate has arisen now. You also know that there are far bigger reasons why people oppose the flag, and they aren't exactly complex or need explaining.

The issue popped-up now because of a specific event, and detractors of the flag were able to reinvigorate a position they have held for decades and gain more support. It's much easier to gain traction on an issue when it can be directly tied to a specific event and people can make a real connection. This ain't complex.

That doesn't mean the major underlying reasons for disliking the flag no longer matter, and it's now shifted to some revenge thing. The connection with the shooter was the impetus to resurrect the dormant debate on a bigger topic.

Also, I never said it was about just pissing off flag supporters. That's just making shit up.
post #4152 of 5454
You said it was about pissing off this one flag supporter. I just made a logical extension of that statement.
post #4153 of 5454
The battle flag should continue to fly as a reminder that the United States is made up of 50 states, and some of those states won't go along with communist warlockery from New York.
post #4154 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

You said it was about pissing off this one flag supporter. I just made a logical extension of that statement.

 

Well, that's really, really awful logic.

 

There's a big difference between wanting to piss off a racist guy who just killed 9 innocent people and supports the flag and wanting to piss off an average citizen who supports the flag for completely different reasons.

 

The overarching goal for the flag detractors is simple. They want to remove a perceived racist symbol from a state-sponsored sphere. The detractors have been trying for decades to explain why this matters, and the public doesn't seem to understand why it matters. That's because the public has difficulty making the connection between the symbolism of the flag and racism. There has to be some connection that resonates to move the needle.

 

This shooter makes that connection much easier for people to understand. They'll think, "If taking down the flag pisses off this racist scum and brings solace to the families of the victims, then I can now understand why the flag has such great symbolic power."


So, it's not about pissing off this guy. It's about how pissing off this guy brings greater understanding to the larger issue.

post #4155 of 5454
Oh, well, in that case I'm glad he wasn't wearing a suit in any of those pictures, or we'd be next.
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