or Connect
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook. - Page 275

post #4111 of 5454
Yet another example of how fragile our society is.

We're never too far from the Salem's witch trials or Mao's Great Leap Forward.
post #4112 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

An opportunity for everybody to come together and they turned it into a divisive crusade to pull down a war memorial. Why am I not surprised?

Did Obama pretend to cry again?

 

I'm not sure who "they" refers to. Nonethless, this actually seems to be an instance where blacks and whites, Democracts and Republicans, liberals and conservatives are not being divisive. The fact that the "pull[ing] down a war memorial" campaign was (*trigger warning*) spearheaded by a Republican governor and supported by a lot of her colleagues should be the first clue. The list goes on of people on both sides of the aisle, of different races, etc. that are in, relative, agreement.

 

The Charleston Post and Courier is asking every member of the SC legislature about the flag and is finding reasonably unified opinions:

http://www.postandcourier.com/apps/pbcs.dll/dcce?Site=CP&Date=20150622&Category=StaticPages&Module=15&Class=15&Type=StaticPages&ID=432782

That seems pretty undivisive.

 

Sure, there's a lot about the issue that is still divisive. No issue will ever have 100% support. But is that what should be required to consider something not divisive? In a time where there is tremendous ideological differences about every possible issue, this actually seems to represent an unexpected coming together of two sides. This is a tricky and sensitive issue that has divided people for a long time. Seeing things unfold like this is actually quite unusual because of the relative lack of divisiveness.

 

What's divisive is making comments like "pull down a war memorial." You know it's a much more complex and nuanced situation, and even your black Democrat president isn't framing it like that. Many, like him, are saying just put it in a museum, not tear it down.

post #4113 of 5454
It is a memorial, not unlike the ones found in nearly every town in the south. You wouldn't know that from the media coverage, though.

And as far as this being "spearheaded" by the Republican governor, that's a bunch of hooey. The media and the left were beating the pull-down-the-flag drum for days before Haley jumped on board. And your presenting the spinelessness of politicians under the pressure of the moment as consensus is beyond lame.
post #4114 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

It is a memorial, not unlike the ones found in nearly every town in the south. You wouldn't know that from the media coverage, though.

 

That's just not true. The media has been pretty clear that it's a memorial.

 

Article on front page of CNN.com right now:

"... debate to remove the flag from a war memorial located yards from the Capitol's doors."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/24/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html

 

NY Times editorial saying to take down the flag:

"In 2000, the state’s legislators removed the flag from the Capitol dome as well as from their chambers and placed a smaller version on a flagpole near the Confederate memorial."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/23/opinion/take-down-the-confederate-battle-flag-symbol-of-hatred.html

 

Caption to a picture of a Confederate battle flag that accompanies an AP article titled, "AP EXPLAINS: Confederate battle flag, flown around US South:"

"In this July 19, 2011 file photo, Confederate battle flags fly outside the museum at the Confederate Memorial Park in Mountain Creek, Ala., Tuesday, July 19, 2011."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/ap-explains-confederate-battle-flag-flown-around-us-south/2015/06/23/a7561512-1a07-11e5-bed8-1093ee58dad0_story.html

post #4115 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

Amazon, Wal-Mart, eBay, and other retailers (I'm sure) are banning anything with the flag on it that isn't condemning it in some way.

If I wasn't sure it would get my car vandalized, I'd get a bumper sticker with it while I still can.

I found Dukes of Hazzard reruns on TV last year and showed it to my preschool-age son, who promptly went on a Dukes kick. As a result, he requested a bunch of stuff from the show for his birthday. In my house, there are no less than three replicas of the General Lee, each with the battle flag emblazoned on top. I hope no one reports me for corrupting my poor child.

Also, I have a Bonnie Blue flag tag on the front of my Jeep. It's been there for years without anyone ever mentioning it, but now I wonder how deep the "you have to take that down or be branded racist because we all know what you really mean if you keep it" judgement is going to go.
post #4116 of 5454
Amusing that every single of those articles you linked to shows a picture of the flag carefully framed so as not to show the memorial (or much of it).

And this is the picture we see over and over:



That being said, I'm sure we'll see pictures of the memorial when they want to tear it down too in ten years or so when the next opportunity presents itself.
post #4117 of 5454
Numerous reports of confederate memorials being defaced since this controversy broke:

‘Black Lives Matter’ graffiti appears on Confederate memorials across the U.S.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/23/black-lives-matter-graffiti-appears-on-confederate-memorials-across-the-u-s/
post #4118 of 5454


Black Lives Mater!
post #4119 of 5454
This is only going to inflame things. But what a great way to get more dead bodies. Dead bodies can be traded in for stuff, like tearing down monuments, changing currency, and getting race-based appointments.
post #4120 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post

And as far as this being "spearheaded" by the Republican governor, that's a bunch of hooey. The media and the left were beating the pull-down-the-flag drum for days before Haley jumped on board. And your presenting the spinelessness of politicians under the pressure of the moment as consensus is beyond lame.

 

This doesn't really make sense. When has the left/media been able to pressure Republicans, particularly state politicians in a staunchly Republican southern state, to go against their real and true convictions? In recent history, they haven't been able to do it on any other issue (guns, war, drugs, Obamacare, etc.), but they all of a sudden got them to change on this?

 

What about SC State Representative Norman D. Brannon, who is a Republican and represents a conservative district in the state. He's filing a bill in the next session to remove the flag. He said, “What lit the fire under this was the tragic death of my friend and his eight parishioners. It took my buddy’s death to get me to do this. I should feel ashamed of myself.” Was that the liberal media pressuring him to say that?

 

I grew-up in the deep south and am exceptionally famililar with the flag and all of its controversies. It's a subject that I'm more familiar with than just about anything else. I have literally been studying the flag for nearly 20 years and wrote a thesis about it. I've interviewed people like former SC Governor Beasley, who was voted out of office, in large part, for his stance on the flag. People who know exactly what this issue means poltically, socially, historically, etc. Thinking that Republicans are now caving to liberal media pressure over this is what's actually beyond lame.

post #4121 of 5454
Did anyone read the link to the DU thread? Some wonderful folks there were advocating bulldozing over Confederate cemeteries. One poster said, "AngryAmish (22,696 posts) 72. The skeletons need to be staked first. Otherwise, they come back."

Wonderfully healing stuff.
post #4122 of 5454
G, you say were all fine with changing the flag but as someone who has far too much interaction with the more cretinous REpublicans in this state I can tell you that that is far from true. It's a growing minority yes, but they still have enough pull with just enough folks at the legislature that they aren't going away soon.
post #4123 of 5454
Georgia changed the flag in a backroom deal. Mississippi had a referendum and they voted to keep the confederate emblem on the flag two to one, which is about the ratio of white to black voters in the state. How much more divisive could it be?

ETA: I believe I am oversimplifying it a bit, since, according to google, apparently about 20% or so of each group voted the other way.
post #4124 of 5454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piobaire View Post

Did anyone read the link to the DU thread? Some wonderful folks there were advocating bulldozing over Confederate cemeteries. One poster said, "AngryAmish (22,696 posts) 72. The skeletons need to be staked first. Otherwise, they come back."

Wonderfully healing stuff.

I saw that. Pretty ugly, but I found this more offensive:
Quote:
No one needs to fret. You can still get it up North...

you know, iced tea with SUGAR in it.

Um. No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edinatlanta View Post

G, you say were all fine with changing the flag but as someone who has far too much interaction with the more cretinous REpublicans in this state I can tell you that that is far from true. It's a growing minority yes, but they still have enough pull with just enough folks at the legislature that they aren't going away soon.

You're talking about something different from what my posts here are referencing. I've been talking about current events, not the full legacy of Confederate iconology in state symbols.

To address your point: I think it was the right move to change the Georgia flag. I didn't feel that way when it happened because I was a kid with a limited understanding of the history of the issue, but, upon really studying how we got that flag in the first place, I think keeping it was pretty untenable.

That said, the way it was changed was ridiculous. In a lot of ways, it was our political system at its worst.

So, while I'm glad we don't have the '56 flag anymore and don't care if not having it upsets its stalwarts (whom I acknowledge exist), that doesn't justify the train wreck that was the process of changing it.
post #4125 of 5454
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ataturk View Post


Georgia changed the flag in a backroom deal. Mississippi had a referendum and they voted to keep the confederate emblem on the flag two to one, which is about the ratio of white to black voters in the state. How much more divisive could it be?

ETA: I believe I am oversimplifying it a bit, since, according to google, apparently about 20% or so of each group voted the other way.


Huh? Nobody is debating that the flag hasn't been a divisive issue in the past. But the Georgia flag was changed in 2003 (2001 to be technical), and the Mississippi referendum was in 2001. In the lifespan of controversies, that's a very long time. Not really useful or productive to cite them as being indicative of the issue today.

The issue certainly is still controversial, but the divisiveness 10-20 years ago was monumentally different than it is currently.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Events, Power and Money
Styleforum › Forums › General › Current Events, Power and Money › Stupid political crap your friends post on facebook.